November 13, 2008Debbie SchlusselEXCLUSIVE: Did Next Commander-in-Chief Falsify Selective Service Registration? Never Actually Register? Obama's Draft Registration Raises Serious Questions**** Copyright 2008, Must Cite Debbie Schlussel and link to DebbieSchlussel.com **** *** SCROLL DOWN FOR UPDATES *** Did President-elect Barack Hussein Obama commit a federal crime in September of this year? Or did he never actually register and, instead, did friends of his in the Chicago federal records center, which maintains the official copy of his alleged Selective Service registration commit the crime for him? It's either one or the other, as indicated by the release of Barack Obama's official Selective Service registration for the draft. A friend of mine, who is a retired federal agent, spent almost a year trying to obtain this document through a Freedom of Information Act request, and, after much stonewalling, finally received it and released it to me. But the release of Obama's draft registration and an accompanying document, posted below, raises more questions than it answers. And it shows many signs of fraud, not to mention putting the lie to Obama's claim that he registered for the draft in June 1979, before it was required by law.   The official campaign for President may be over. But Barack Obama's Selective Service registration card and accompanying documents show that questions about him are not only NOT over, but if the signature on the document is in fact his, our next Commander-in-Chief may have committed a federal crime in 2008, well within the statute of limitations on the matter. If it is not his, then it's proof positive that our next Commander-in-Chief never registered with the Selective Service as required by law. By law, he was required to register and was legally able to do so until the age of 26. But the Selective Service System registration ("SSS Form 1") and accompanying computer print-out ("SSS Print-out), below, released by the Selective Service show the following oddities and irregularities, all of which indicate the document was created in 2008 and backdated: * Document Location Number Indicates Obama Selective Service Form was Created in 2008 First, there is the Document Location Number (DLN) on the form. In the upper right hand corner of the Selective Service form SSS Form 1, there is the standard Bates-stamped DLN, in this case "0897080632," which I've labeled as "A" on both the SSS Form and the computer printout document. On the form, it reflects a 2008 creation, but on the printout, an extra eight was added in front of the number to make it look like it is from 1980, when it was actually created in 2008. As the retired federal agent notes: Having worked for the Federal Government for several decades, I know that the standardization of DLNs have the first two digits of the DLN representing the year of issue. That would mean that this DLN was issued in 2008. The DLN on the computer screen printout is the exact same number, except an 8 has been added to make it look like it is from 1980 and give it a 1980 DLN number. And 1980 is the year Senator/President Elect Obama is said to have timely registered. So, why does the machine-stamped DLN reflect this year (2008) and the DLN in the database (which was manually input) reflect a "corrected" DLN year of 1980? Were all the DLNs issued in 1980 erroneously marked with a 2008 DLN year or does the Selective Service use a different DLN system then the rest of the Federal Government? Or was the SSS Form 1 actually processed in 2008 and not 1980? It's quite a "coincidence" . . . that is, if you believe in coincidences, especially in this case. Far more likely is that someone made up a fake Selective Service registration to cover Obama's lack of having done so, and that the person stamping the form forgot (or was unable to) change the year to "80" instead of the current "08". They either forgot to fake the DLN number or couldn't do so. And guess where the Selective Service registrations are marked and recorded? Lucky for Obama, it's his native Chicago. From an article entitled, "Post Office Registration Process", on the Selective Service website: When a young man reaches 18 he can go to any of the 35,000 post offices nationwide to register with Selective Service. There he completes a simple registration card and mails it to the Selective Service System. This begins a multi-step process which results in the man's registration. The Document Locator Number (DLN) is an automatic function (Selective Service record-keeping, specifically the DLN is described on pages 7-8 of this Federal Register document), with the first two digits comprising the year, and it was not changed to "08" in error. So if the form was filed and processed in 1980, how did it get a 2008 DLN?! * Obama's Selective Service Registration Form is Apparently 1990 Form Altered to Appear Like 1980 Form On the SSS Form 1, in the lower left hand corner is the form number (SSS Form 1) and the month and year version of the form, labeled as "B". On this particular Form 1, it clearly shows the month as "FEB" (February), and the year is either "80" or "90". The retired federal agent investigated further: Magnification of the form both physically (with a 10x glass) or with different image software does not reflect a clear cut result of either a "80" or a "90". But, checking the history of SSS Form 1 (see http://www.reginfo.gov/public/do/PRAViewICR?ref_nbr=198002-3240-001#), it's apparent that in February 1980, the Selective Service agency withdrew a "Request for a new OMB control number" for SSS Form 1 (see also, here)--meaning the agency canceled its previous request for a new form, and one was never issued in "FEB 1980". Since under the Paperwork Reduction Act of 1980, Pub. L. No. 96-511, 94 Stat. 2812 (Dec. 11, 1980), codified in part at Subchapter I of Chapter 35 of Title 44 a federal agency can not use a form not approved by OMB (Office of Management and Budget), it's nearly impossible for Senator/President-Elect Obama's SSS Form 1 to be dated "Feb 1980." And since that makes it almost certainly dated "Feb 1990," then how could Barack Obama sign it and the postal clerk stamp it almost ten (10) years before its issue?! Simply not possible. The lower right hand corner reflects that the Obama SSS form 1 was approved by OMB with an approval number of 19??0002, labeled as "C". The double question marks (??) reflect digits that are not completely clear. * Barack Obama's Signature is Dated After Postal Stamp Certifying His Signature Barack H. Obama signed the SSS Form 1's "Today's date" as July 30, 1980, labeled "D". But the Postal Stamp reflects the PREVIOUS day's date of July 29, 1980, labeled "E". Yes, Obama could have mistakenly written the wrong date, but it is rare and much more unlikely for someone to put a future date than a past date. (Also note how Barry made such a "cute" peace sign with the "b" inside the "O" of his signature. Touching.) * Postal Stamp is Incorrect, Discontinued in 1970 Then, there is the question as to whether the Postal Stamp is real. The "postmark" stamp--labeled "E"--is hard to read, but it is clear that at the bottom is "USPO" which stands typically for United States Post Office. However, current "postmark" validator, registry, or round dater stamps (item 570 per the Postal Operations Manual) shows "USPS" for United States Postal Service. The change from Post Office to Postal Service occurred on August 12, 1970, when President Nixon signed into law the most comprehensive postal legislation since the founding of the Republic--Public Law 91-375. The new Postal Service officially began operations on July 1, 1971. Why was an old, obsolete postmark round dater stamp used almost ten (10) years after the fact to validate a legal document . . . that just happened to be Barack Obama's suspicious Selective Service registration form? * Form Shows Barack Obama didn't have ID The SSS Form 1 states "NO ID", labeled "F". Since that's the case, then how did the Hawaiian postal clerk know that the submitter was really Barack H. Obama, who may have been on summer break from attending Occidental College in California. How would they determine whether the registrant was truly registering and not a relative, friend, or other imposter? * The Selective Service Data Mgt. Center Stonewalled for Almost a Year on Obama Registration, Until Right Before the Election. The retired federal agent who FOIA'd Barack Obama's Selective Service Registration Form notes: Early this year, when I first started questioning whether Obama registered I was told:Sir: There may be an error in his file or many other reasons why his registration cannot be confirmed on-line. However, I did confirm with our Data Management Center that he is, indeed, registered with the Selective Service System, in compliance with Federal law. * Other Questions: Missing Selective Service Number, FOIA Response Dated Prior to FOIA Request, Missing Printout Page Where is Obama's Selective Service number (61-1125539-1) on the card? And the retired federal agent notes that the Selective Service Data Management Center prepared its response to his FOIA request prior to the request having been made: The last transaction date is 09/04/80 [DS: labeled "G"], but the date of the printout is 09/09/08 [DS: labeled "H"]. My FOIA was dated October 13 so why did they prepare the printout BEFORE I submitted my FOIA? I gave them no "heads up" that I was sending it. In fact it was not mailed until late October--around the 25th. Hmmm . . . where is the other page, and what's on it? A lot of questions here. And a lot of huge hints that this government-released, official Barack Obama Selective Service registration was faked. Either he signed the fake backdated document, or someone else faked his signature and he never registered for the draft (and lied about it). Which is it? It's incredible that our impending Commander-in-Chief either didn't register for the draft or did so belatedly and fraudulently. The documents indicate it's one or the other. *** UPDATE: Here's another irregularity that points to fraud, as spotted by reader Joyce: My husband printed the information provided on your web site regarding Barack Obama's Selective Service registration discrepancies. I noticed that the DLN number in upper right corner (labeled "A") has only ten (10) digits with the first two being 08 , but the DLN number shown on the computer screen printout has eleven (11) digits with the first two being 80. It clearly indicates that the "8" was added at the beginning of the DLN number, in order to appear that it was issued in 1980 and wasn't simply a reversal of the first two digits as the retired federal agent noted. This in itself appears questionable. I would think there is a standard number of digits in all DLN numbers. **** UPDATE #2, 11/14/08: Retired Federal Agent Source Reveals Himself: The recently retired federal agent has requested that I disclose his identity so that there is no question as to the source of the information. UPDATE #3, 11/17/08: Some Obamapologists are claiming this is a fake and want to see evidence that retired agent Coffman actually got these documents from the Selective Service System Data Management Center. Below are scans of the letter and envelope that accompanied Barack Obama's fraudulent registration for the draft (I've cropped the blank white space):   Posted by Debbie at November 13, 2008 01:56 AM CommentsI think you are right about this. Besides the form being wrong, I don't believe he was really born in 1961. I say this because he continually claims he was 8 years old when his buddy Bill Ayers bombed the Pentagon in 1968. Had he been born in '61 that would make him 6 or 7 depending on the half of year he is refering to and seeing that his objective by his claim is to say he was very young at the time, one would think he would get it right (as in the date he claims to be born on). Posted by: BobOnStatenIsland Bob,
Posted by: Norman Blitzer Bob,
Posted by: Norman Blitzer The digits in the DLN are not transposed. The second DLN is the same as the first with an 8 added at the beginning, 0897080632 vs 80897080632. So much for the sharp eyes and the keen insight of that anonymous "retired federal agent". Could it be that the big blue A photoshopped on top of the form is covering up the first digit of the DLN to turn the "808" at the start into "08" to make the case that it is a 2008 number? It should be real easy to find out if the DLN on a real Selective Service form from the 1980 time frame is supposed to have a 10 or an 11 digit DLN to see which one is correct. Also, http://www.sss.gov/FSbenefits.htm says that anyone who doesn't register is not eligible for Federal student loans. Obama got student loans, as should be easy to verify and is mentioned among other places at http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/04/09/michelle-obama-baracks-book-sales-paid-off-our-student-loans/ [B: NICE TRY, BUT THE "A" IS NOT COVERING UP ANYTHING. THIS IS THE DOCUMENT EXACTLY AS WE GOT IT, BUT FOR THE ADDITION OF THE COLORED LETTERS TO INDICATE THINGS AND NOTE MY SITE. APPARENTLY YOU DON'T READ VERY CLOSELY, EITHER. THE EXTRA "8", AS I NOTED, WAS INDEED, ADDED ON THE PRINTOUT FORM--WHERE IT COULD EASILY BE DOCTORED--TO MAKE IT LOOK LIKE A 2008 FORM WAS ACTUALLY FROM 1980, WHEN IT WAS NOT. THE FRAUD ARTIST--EITHER OBAMA OR ONE OF HIS FRIENDS AT THE CHICAGO-BASED SSS DATA MGT. CENTER OR BOTH--WERE ABLE TO ADD THE EIGHT VERY EASILY ON A COMPUTER PRINTOUT, BUT EITHER COULDN'T OR FORGOT TO DO SO ON THE BATES-STAMPED DATA LOCATOR NUMBER. IN THOSE DAYS, THEY DIDN'T YET CRACK DOWN ON NON-COMPLIANCE ENOUGH AND THE LAW ON FEDERAL LOANS WASN'T YET IN EXISTENCE. BUT YOU KEEP TRYING FOR EXCUSES. DS]
Posted by: bugstomper I checked my Selective Service card and mine has an 81 designator, which is appropriate with the year I registered. Although I was in the Air Force Reserve at the time, I still was required to register (I enlisted at 17, and turned 18 while in the Reserves). I thought it was stupid to register for the Draft while I was serving in a reserve component, but I complied with the law. Now, oddly enough, when I separated from the active Air Force, I had to RE-register (which I did do), and then I received a letter from the Selective Service folks informing me that since I had done my military service (duh) I was no longer liable for conscription. My number didn't change, though, as it still had an 81 designator on it. In short, Obama's a fraud and civil serpents are covering for him. What's the penalty for fraudulent registration, because some folks (Obama, especially) need to pay up! Posted by: Sharps Rifle I'm wondering how I can get a copy of my Selective Service Registration. I was born in July 1961, my form should surely represent what Obama's form looks like. Posted by: Mark So this document is a fake... What next? Have another election? Presidents are supposed to try and cover up all kinds of things (and then get caught)... like oral sex from chubby interns, like Iran-Contra, like getting drunk and shooting an old guy in the face (okay, technically a VP)... like Weapons of Mass Destruction. Other than giving right wingers something to harp on, what should be the end game of this forged document? Overturn the decision of the American electorate in the 2008 Presidential Electorate? Posted by: James Scearce To Mark: you can retrieve your selective service number at https://www.sss.gov/RegVer/wfVerification.aspx I'm such an old coot that I would have to do it via a mail request. I probably still have my "draft card" around, but I am too lazy to hunt it up. Posted by: Shr_Nfr Nothing surprises me about Barack Hussein Obama anymore ... now how about we get ahold of his birth certificate?! Jimmy Lewis
Posted by: Jimmy Lewis Debbie, this is a fascinating story and I'm sure that every responsible journalist in America will be knocking your door down any moment now to cover in detail. Say howdy to Olbermann and Matthews for me when they interview you. The mystery behind this man is astounding. It pains me to think he will have the title, Commander-in-Chief. I wonder how the military will react to this story? Posted by: SydB Any reason that you don't name your source for the FOIA material? Posted by: KingSlav Don't forget to wear your tin foil hat, Debbie. Posted by: sirkowski DS -- outstanding work. Thank you. You don't think anything will come of this though do you? As much as I hate to admit it, even if someone dug up a past murder conviction (NOT SAYING THERE IS ONE...just using an extreme example), pretty certain all the lefties would STILL look the other way and shrug the shoulders. They got one of theirs in there and they will soon be in power. We're going to have to suck it up and gut this out one year, one month, one week, at a time. Loyal and fervent opposition. Posted by: soccerdad My mom didn't want me to register, she being a big anti-war type. I finally did so, however, realizing that student loans would be a problem. This was in 1980, I believe. I don't recall if I had to submit proof of registration with the student loan application, or not. In any case, I imagine that his apparent failure to register may have been because of maternal pressure or some such. I don't necessarily hold it against him, although if he was directly involved in the creation of a fake, that's another story. Posted by: sonomaca The Democrat Party hierarchy both inside and outside the government created this candidate, Barack Obama. They altered, hid or destroyed any document that would expose the real Obama to public scrutiny. University administrations were involved because no record of Obama's writings at ANY school could be found. His official Hawaii birth certificate does not exist, because there never was one, only the "created" birth certificate exists, just like this draft registration. The election of 2008 will someday be exposed as the most corrupt election in the history of the United States. 2008 is the year we elected an African born marxist-muslim, to be the President of the United States of America. The Democrat Party should be banned as a subversive organization bent on the OVERTHROW of the United States Government, because folks, they have almost accomplished just that. The military may have to save us from the marxists presently controlling our government! Posted by: PatrickHenry To PatrickHenry, I agree with you. And to James Scearce...it's obvious by your response that moral character, substance and true leadership were not a prerequisite in your decision to support Obama. You ask,"...what should be the end game of this forged document?" I believe the "end game" should be to expose Obama for what he truly is...a liar and a radical revolutionary hell-bent in turning America into a socialized welfare state at the expense of others. You, sir, are a mindless fool if you think the accusations, investigations, and ongoing search for the real truth behind this man. There are so many questions about Obama left unanswered. Could you please help me understand why we should support such an individual whose past is riddled with controversy? Posted by: Kurier Radek It's probably usless but you ain't seen nuthin yet! The inmates now run the asylum and all we can do is hold our noses and wait. We will give this administration as much leeway as they gave to Bush. Clinton and his antics did not affect us and now no use to wonder why Obomer got elected. Hold your noses and go on. Posted by: arejaymack Just curious why this didn't come out until AFTER the election? Why we still haven't seen a birth certificate? I don't think it would have affected the outcome. ACORN was determined to vote the same way no matter what came to light about The Commander in Thief. What can we do about it? Pitchforks and torches. Let's march on Washington January 20 and storm the bastille!! Right. We're effed. As one of the other posters said, all we can do is go along for the ride at this point. Half of Americans voted for this putz and still think he's the One. Our only hope from a complete marxist/communist takeover is that the troops take their vow seriously -- "all enemies, foreign and domestic" and protect us from the evil triumvirate of Obama/Pelosi/Reid. Posted by: ConnectTheDots2006 Just checked with the selective service link posted above. My number begins with my birth year and has a total of TEN digits. Also posted is the date that I registered. Posted by: laser--*52609 There is something you can do. Go to www.democratic-disaster.com and volunteer! Posted by: stormyweather Google says the phone number belongs to M L Dunham (grandmother) with correct address. Does anyone have access to Hawaiian records that show she ownwed this number in 1980? Grandma could have had the same number for a long time (28 years) or this could be another current info issue versus older records? Posted by: tompur http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Barack_Obama_signature.svg Here is a copy of his signature - doesn't look anything like that! You can find it in many locations and always the B looks like a bubble rather than the way it shows here. In general you can't read the letters after the B. I would say forged, but I'm no expert! Posted by: jcsjcm Well researched, and exhaustive. I'm curious if you could identify the federal law that the alleged forgers broke here and its maximum penalty. Thanks! Posted by: CTN Obama's signature on the SSS Registration Form form does not match his actual signature (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Barack_Obama_signature.svg). Now, I know the signature on the SSS Registration Form is supposedly from 1980, and people signatures change over time, but they do not change as drastically as the 1980 version above and the 2008 version at the link I provided. The contrast is so stark that indicates that they are most likely not the same person did not sign both documents. Posted by: waupee Interesting research, kinda reminds me of the research into George Bush's National Guard records, you know the missing records, the failure to actually complete his national guard service, etc. Of course you probably think that was all bull right. But then I guess all you conspiracy theorists really like the way the country has been run over the last eight years. Posted by: krsaz I'm not defending Obama, but your DLN document analysis is way off. The first two digits are a location code, not year. Here is the link to the IRS training manual:
The final digit is the year. [TKC: WOW, YOU'RE REALLY GRASPING AT STRAWS. SINCE WHEN IS THE IRS THE SAME AS THE SSS? THEY HAVE DIFFERENT PROCEDURES. HELLO . . .? THE IRS ONLY USES ONE DIGIT FOR THE YEAR IN THE DOCUMENT LOCATOR NUMBER B/C IT IS ONLY REQUIRED TO KEEP TAX RECORDS ON FILE FOR THE PREVIOUS SEVEN YEARS. BUT THE SSS IS REQUIRED TO KEEP SELECTIVE SERVICE REGISTRATION DOCUMENTS UNTIL THE REGISTRANT'S 85TH BIRTHDAY, SO IT USES TWO DIGITS FOR THE YEAR IN THE DOCUMENT LOCATOR NUMBER. GET A CLUE AND QUIT USING RED HERRINGS THAT ARE IRRELEVANT IN YOUR ATTEMPT TO DEFEND THE FRAUD OBAMA. HE LIED ABOUT REGISTERING FOR THE DRAFT, AND THIS IS A FAKE, SINCE HE NEVER REGISTERED. YES THERE IS AN "ANALYSIS" HERE THAT IS WAY OFF: YOURS. IF YOU CAN CALL THAT "ANALYSIS." DS] Posted by: TheKansasCitian krsaz, The real issue not about this one document, its that Obama's entire past is riddled with, at the very least, very questionable activities and repeated failure to speak the truth. Hell, he won't even provide a copy of his birth certificate or any of his college records. Everything about his past is shrouded in secrecy and any document in his past that can speak anything about him has either been lost or has been sealed by his legal team. As for the GW National Guard reference, that whole story was proven to be a farce, and didn't "Rathergate" eventually lead to the end Dan Rather's career at CBS? Yeah, Bush is definately not the best president we've ever had. But McCain/Palin would not have been four more years of the same. At least we know who they are and we can verify their records and past accomplishments. Posted by: waupee I looked up my SSS # on the provided link, mine shows Selective Service Number:
The X's are numbers I replaced for privacy. I was born in 75 but registered in 94. The first two digits have nothing to do with year. They, as stated in the IRS DLN specifications are a location. On IRS forms only 1 digit is used to denote the year. Not sure how that works, but that's what the manual says. I would have loved nothing more for this to be a true forgery and catch Obama red handed, but its not. The facts just don't support it.
Posted by: TheKansasCitian Good work Debbie. Unfortunately I think you have just reserved a spot on the "Obama enemies list". Prepare to have a detailed audit of your income taxes every year along with any other way they can harass you. Posted by: I_am_me Kansas Citian: You may be correct, but I'm not sure why you would use IRS standards to interpret a Selective Service form, or why you would use 1994 standards to define a 1980 document. Can you explain? Posted by: CTN Outstanding reporting. I know the MSM and much of the 'conservative' media will ignore this, but sooner or later, this information will seep through. When it does, it will open the door to all your other exposes; it is just a question of time, and I have tremendous respect for your efforts to bring the truth to a public that would rather believe lies than the truth. Posted by: c f Debbie, same sentiments as I_am_me. We know you do diligent work and you are very intelligent so if you put it out there I expect it to have legs to stand on.
Posted by: californiascreaming I wonder why "S.Beretania" looks to have been added after everything else has been filed out? note the elevation of the print? why would he not know where he lived? It's as if he (or someone) was writing it in pieces insted of flowing as it should have looked?
Posted by: 25eight Good catch Debbie -- looks legitimate to me! Posted by: ob3 Wow, Debbie--this is dyn-o-mite!
And for types like Blitzer, a birth announcement in the Honolulu Advertiser is not a legal document. Posted by: lexi Since no one has committed on it yet, am I the only one here wondering why the form asks if you are male or female in block 2 when the selective service act expressly prohibited females? I am sure somewhere there is a bureaucrat whose entire job consists of compiling statistics on the number of males and females signing up for selective service. Current female count: 0 Posted by: rbb DS, If you would read your own writing closely, you would see that you did not say, and I'll copy and paste here, "THE EXTRA "8", AS I NOTED, WAS INDEED, ADDED ON THE PRINTOUT FORM--WHERE IT COULD EASILY BE DOCTORED" All your post says about that is a quote from the "retired federal agent" who said (another copy and paste) "The DLN on the computer screen printout is the exact same number, except the 0 and 8 have changed positions" and later where you say "Far more likely is that someone made up a fake Selective Service registration to cover Obama's lack of having done so, and that the person stamping the form forgot (or was unable to) change the year to "80" instead of the current "80" [sic]" If you are going to prove something like this you should at least try to be precise. It is discrepancies like this that could lead people to claim that your scan of the registration form is doctored because the A is covering up a digit, a claim no more farfetched than the claim that what some might see as a data entry error adding an extra digit in a manually entered and unchecked DLN field on the computer screen printout is part of an attempt to cover up a forgery by entering a forged 11 digit number in a 10 digit field, an implausibly clumsy forgery. Anyway, my point was to raise the easily answered question as to what is the correct format of the DLN, 10 or 11 digits, as the answer to that would indicate which of the two numbers to trust more. And we got the answer from Kansas Citian's comment: The DLN on his form is ten digits and began with a number other than the year that he registered. That would indicate that 1) The DLN on the document is the correct one of the two (which is consistent with your theory but doesn't prove it), and 2) The first two digits do not necessarily correspond to the year of registration (which blows that part of your proof out of the water). CTN is correct that the IRS standards for a DLN don't necessarily apply to Selective Service documents. But Kansas Citian cited his own Selective Service form DLN, so that part of his post is applicable. Perhaps SS changed the format of the DLN between 1980 and 1994 to use birth year instead of registration year. That argument is really reaching to make excuses and doesn't explain how they handled people born in 1980 whose DLNs would look just like those of people born between 1960 and 1962 who registered in 1980. The real bottom line is that the questions about the Selective Service form can easily be answered by the Selective Service department who can tell you the proper format of their DLNs and standards for postmarks and requirements for IDs and so forth more reliably than an anonymous retired federal agent who may or may not be familiar with SS DLNs (which are apparently different from IRS DLNs and who knows what other federal departments). So take off the tinfoil hat, ask the questions of some civil servant at the Selective Service department (you might even be able to find a Republican there to be sure of your answer), and then let the chips fall where they may once you find out the truth about the document. Maybe you'll get lucky and the DLN really will prove that Obama never registered.
Posted by: bugstomper In 1980 wasn't Obama residing at Occidental College, which doesn't appear on his record. Posted by: Mel Kansas Citian: The IRS has more than one standard for listing a citizen's social-security number on documents. When I've looked up my IRS info, I've seen anywhere four to six digits x'd out, depending on the year and document I'm trying to access. It seems like it's random and not really a standardized system. Moreover I agree with the other post that said we can't apply IRS standards to Selective Service Procedures in which standard conventions may have varied several times between now and 1980. Obama has a problem.....but maybe our wonderful GWB will toss him one of the pardons. Also, isn't Selective Service registration mandatory for college scholarships and financial aid ????? Posted by: Maxine Weiss And before someone else notices, I'll point out my own mistake: Kansas Citian apparently confused his SSS number, which as you can see in Obama's printout begins with his birth year, with the DLN. So Kansas Citian's comment still does not answer the question about the proper format of the DLN. But as I said, that question is best answered directly from the Selective Service Department by asking them a) what is the proper format, and b) if it is supposed to begin with the registration year what is their explanation for Obama's form's DLN. Better to go to the source than engaging in endless speculation.
Posted by: bugstomper what's concerning is the date stamp. Can anyone find anything stamped with 'USPO' instead of 'USPS?' It appears online to be a isolated incident. Are there any stamp collectors out there that can quantify the value of an error like this on a US postal stamp? Wouldn't this be a rare find? In more ways than one anyway.
Posted by: MissTickly I think the search is on to fond another registration out of the same office close to sept 1980 and compare the postal stamps. Case solved if they do or don't match. Posted by: MissTickly Re: Kansas Citian. You are confusing the DLN and Selective Service numbers. The first two digits on your Selective Service number are "75", the same as your birth date. Likewise, Obama's SSN starts with "61", same as his birth year. Mine starts with "61" too, as I was born in 1961 and actually had my card processed on the same day as Obama- 09/04/1980.
Posted by: paigenalex paigenalex: what does your date stamp look like? Is is out of Chicago, too? Posted by: MissTickly What I am Curious about is that if there is 2 different DLN's, who owns the one from 1980? Also isn't all Microfiche dated when created? I would assume that BHO's SS form would have been processed according to it's arrival at the Agency that handled the Processing. So wouldn't that leave a paper trail? Is there any proof that the original Microfiche that would have held this information has ever been tampered with? Is there any other Documentation that BHO would have supplied to the Selective Service that proved that BHO provided an Indonesian Passport to prove Citizenship in another Country? This is Far fro Over in my Eyes!!!
Posted by: SirJaxx Profanity is still the crutch of a weak mind. Whenever I see any kind of profanity in a comment, I immediately stamp it with my "WEAK MIND" stamp and pass right over it. Obamaism should be officially classified as a cult. Its follower are all brainwashed by hopey changey. They can't handle the truth about their "messiah". That he is a dope on a rope with no hope. He is going to go down in the flames of abject FAILURE. Oh, and did I fail to mention that he has BIG EARS! Posted by: Jayke Feltz One more thing, I believe Obama was still using the last name Soetoro until he transferred from Occidental to Columbia. Perhaps he was going by the book and using his birth name, but he used the name Soetoro for all his school records. Posted by: paigenalex MissTickly, I don't have the card. I used the link earlier in the post to look up my number. I was struck by the fact our registrations were recorded the same day. All I remember about the card was it was postcard sized and aqua blue in color. Posted by: paigenalex Good find Debbie...
Question is now, who do we get in OUR government to investigate this. They wouldn't touch his birth certificate, so how in the hell, and whose arm needs to be twisted to get this looked at???
Posted by: Jackson Pearson Jackson: I can't verify the hex data, but assuming you are right, howcan this be, these came from the selective service I thought and not Obama? Am I misunderstanding how the foia request works? Posted by: MissTickly Verifying info on form... Reverse telephone shows up as grandmother: ML Dunham (808) 949-2317 1617 S Beretania St, Honolulu, HI 96826 . Building was built (permitted) on 09/12/1964. Is there anyway to verify if the telephone number was attached to Barry's grandmother back in 1980? I know it happens, but 28 years is a LONG time to have the same telephone number... especially when your grandson is running for President of the US...
Posted by: RobertR Are there old phone books or CD-ROM telephone directories that would verify if (808) 949-2317 even existed, and was assigned to ML Dunham in 1980? Posted by: RobertR Ha! Haaa! Ha! Ha! Ha! Great work, Deb! Between you and Pam Gellar's work on Osama/Obama's COLB; this thug may never see the White House again! Now, I think I'll hit the hay... Posted by: bhparkman Does anyone have a way to determine what year that particular ZIP code was put into service? Since 808 has always been the sole area code for HI, the phone number is probably going to check out. Also, has anyone already gone to a U.S. Post Office and gotten a *current* copy of the registration form for a back and forth comparison of DLN and the form issue date? As far as the page 001 of 002, that is coming of a screen print from a mainframe environment consistent with an IBM architecture. Getting a printout of the other screen would have taken a couple more manual steps (pressing the "PF8" key and then the "Print Screen"). That second screen probably had little useful information on it anyway, otherwise the useful parts would have been put into the whitespace on the first screen. Posted by: Ray Scheel The signature appears to be Obama's judging from other samples of his handwriting found across the web. For instance, the unique "peace sign" within the O is found in this 2007 Oath of Presidential Transparency here: http://www.reason.org/oath/Barack%20Obama%20Oath%20of%20Presidential%20Transparency.JPG
Posted by: tbontiq The Library of Congress keeps old telephone directories on microfiche. From the LOC genealogy website:
http://www.loc.gov/rr/genealogy/bib_guid/telephonnoncurr.html#ustm Posted by: Mitch Rapp Verifying info on form... Reverse telephone shows up as grandmother: ML Dunham (808) 949-2317 1617 S Beretania St, Honolulu, HI 96826 . Building was built (permitted) on 09/12/1964. Is there anyway to verify if the telephone number was attached to Barry's grandmother back in 1980? I know it happens, but 28 years is a LONG time to have the same telephone number... especially when your grandson is running for President of the US...
========================
Name: Madelyn L Dunham
Posted by: tbontiq I found this on a quick google search from Pajamas Media: The "proof" offered here does not jive with the information that Ms Schlussel posts. The ellipses indicate brief edits from the original
A Pajamas Media investigation puts to rest another rumor claiming Obama is ineligible for the presidency.
... And there is another rumor that has floated for months on Internet message boards and blogs, in a variation of the technicality stories that would seek to end Obama’s candidacy over an alleged mistake, that Barack Obama never registered for the Selective Service.
A man must be registered to be eligible for jobs in the executive branch of the federal government and the U.S. Postal Service. Proof of registration is required only for men born after December 31, 1959. The registration requirement was suspended in April 1975. It was resumed again in 1980 by President Carter in response to the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. Registration continues today as a hedge against underestimating the number of servicemen needed in a future crisis. 1-103. Persons born in calendar year 1961 shall present themselves for registration on any of the six days beginning Monday, July 28, 1980. (Source). The obligation of a man to register is imposed by the Military Selective Service Act. The Act establishes and governs the operations of the Selective Service System. Barack Obama, who states he was born in Aug. 1961, was required to register for the Selective Service in 1980. Did he? It is a rumor that the Obama campaign has chosen to ignore despite numerous requests, and it is a rumor that even Snopes couldn’t seem to confirm or deny definitively. After contacting the Selective Service System for an answer several times since late June, Pajamas Media obtained official confirmation from the Selective Service System via email that Barack Obama did indeed register for the Selective Service as required by law, and is eligible to run for the presidency. Mr. Owens, Barack Hussein Obama registered at a post office in Hawaii. The effective registration date was September 4, 1980. His registration number is 61-1125539-1. Daniel Amon
It is difficult to determine why no one had confirmed Obama’s Selective Service registration until now. The mainstream media may have had no interest in pursuing the story for a multitude of valid reasons. New media sources aligned with the Obama campaign may have had no interest in conducting an investigation that may serve to impede their selected candidate, and new media opponents may have simply found confirmation of his registration too difficult to obtain — some have suggested that they had contacted the Selective Service, only to be told they would have to file a request under the Freedom of Information Act, which rather notoriously may take months to complete. Perhaps others found it more useful to keep the rumor alive than put it to rest. But the conclusive answer is now known. Barack Obama fulfilled his Selective Service obligation and has every legal right to run for the presidency of the United States. If opponents wish to see him defeated, they’ll have to see it done in the political arena.
______
Note also that the date on Schlussel's document for the filing (7/29) is the day after the first day men from 1961 could file for selective service( after a five year hiatus from "the draft"). How patriotic! Posted by: laser--*52609 IIRC if a person has failed to register with the selective service, they cannot hold a federal job. Am I wrong? Sounds like more lawsuits on the horizon. Posted by: CuF Instead of searching for Obama's SSS, why not search for both the 08 and 80 numbers to see if either match Obama's? Surely there is a computer list of names and numbers that can be searched with either key somewhere. Even though most programs were written in COBOL or FORTRAN during that time (flat files), it is still possible to search on a specific column or set of columns. It seems all too coincidental that two forms now appear to be falsified in some way. His birth certificate was supposedly an adaptation of a scan of his sister's birth certificate.... Posted by: Laura Schneider "University administrations were involved because no record of Obama's writings at ANY school could be found." That really does not surprise me. I teach at a University and it was not until a few years ago we had the technology to keep copies of students work. All work was returned to the student however the PHD tracts may have been different. Now we require all students to turn work in via e-mail and we keep copies of everything. Posted by: Azygos Please disregard my first "discrepancy": While scrolling back and forth I read the DLN as the SSS. Interesting background info to the issue, though. Maybe Dan the Public Affairs Specialist could help explain? (Poor guy!) Posted by: laser--*52609 Barry did not become "Barack" until 12/1?/1980.* Maybe nitpicky since form asks to print "full name." Wouldn't we expect him to at least sign his name as Barry Obama? Most people would likely sign with the name they regularly use(Barry) regardless of their full legal name. However, some might make an exception when signing documents of legal importance, i.e. wills, tax forms.
Posted by: BillCare "What a tangeled web we weave when we practice to deceive."
Posted by: Delta Other questions that should be easy to answer and rule out or rule in a questionable document. Can you FOIA the next sequence of numbers associated with this "document" for comparison?
Why are we shown only page one when the RIMS HISTORY INQUIRY SCREEN shows page 1 of 2?
Kenya show me your orginal? Posted by: BillCare Um, what is the source of this again? A friend of a friend who is good with Photoshop?
I suggest if you want any kind of credibility, you provide a bit more evidence of your source. Posted by: CuF FWIW I found a blank SSS Registration form with a 1982 revision date: Posted by: PattyC To Miss Tickly: FYI...To view a JPG image's header, open it with any "hexadecimal editor," or "MS WordPad." A hex editor is better, but for a quick view, "WordPad" will work just fine. I can't answer the second part of your question. I can only tell you what I found. Posted by: Jackson Pearson Jackson: I meant I was on an iPod touch and couldn't check it... Just bizarre that those same names would be found, eh? Posted by: MissTickly http://www.alipac.us/ftopic-137238-.html links to this site. Please read and comment. MinutemanCDC_SC Posted by: MinutemanCDC_SC Obama got his High School Buddies to make his draft Card for him so when he got carded. Posted by: Johnny V Guard with jealous
Posted by: Hatrack BillCare, page 2 is just instructions on how to fill out the form (page 1). Only page 1 is kept, and page 2 is thrown away. Posted by: MinutemanCDC_SC Ironically my son who turned 18 just got his selective service notice today, they send it to you now, and then if anything is wrong you change it, it's automatic when did that change? My registration which I did in '83 Im gonna look it up, I dont think I have the document anymore, just curious to see what it looks like since my birth cert totally looks different from Husseins BC ie, its typewritten and has actual signatures of witnesses on it. Posted by: eviscera Ok so I am obsessing but so far, after looking at hundreds of "post marks" postage cancelation marks, and "postal date stamp" (the kind you see on a certified mail receipt, like E) I have yet to find even one postal date stamp that memorializes just the last two digits of the year, ie 80. I have only seen postal date stamps that mark a four digit year, ie 1980. Google it yourself and you will see. Strange? Posted by: BillCare This is worse than Watergate, when you add in the Kenya birth. Are we becoming the United States of Kenya? Posted by: jwtusjp Birth Certificate: A lot of city halls have computerized their birth records, including the older typed (and signed copies). A couple years ago, I went to our local city hall to get a new copy of my husband's birth certificate (since his "original copy", over 30 years old) had fallen apart. I was given a computer printout (with an "award" frame), similar to the ones issued for our children (also born in the same city), also absent of the original's signatures, just the seal from the Records Department. Conspiracy theorists, try again if you want the pundits to take you seriously. Selective Service: At least one other poster made note that the Dems were pushing this stuff about Bush and his military service. While the over-exaggeration ruined Rather's career, it came out that there was an actual kernel of truth to it. University Papers: A friend of mine connected to ONE of Sarah Palin's alma maters (University of Idaho) had been amazed that Palin (a journalism major) was not a writer with the school paper (a requirement). C'mon, get something new already. The other conspiracy theorists have been bouncing this around for months. Make up your minds! Which is he, born on foreign soil to an American who gave up her citizenship? (His mother was 19 at the time of his birth, which at the time made her a minor. I doubt she could have done that.) Or a "draft dodger"? Was he born in Kenya? Does he really have Indonesian citizenship? If foreign born, did he get special student aid? Did he register in Hawaii, Chicago, or in LA, the location of his first college, Occidental? The key to being a good conspiracy theorist is finding a good one AND sticking to it.
Posted by: purple american Debbie, Have you obtained other registrations from around this same time period from other individuals. A nice sample would be extremely helpful for comparison. Posted by: Bones I have two points to make in regards to this matter of the alleged 'phony' Selective Service registration. (I believe it is phony.)
Posted by: Vicki551 Hey jwtusjp Obot, What can we do if your Messiah has so many skeletons in his closet? That is the reason why there are many "conspiracy theories". Unfortunately brainwashed Obots are part of the media and of government offices too (like the Obot that ILLEGALLY looked up info on Joe the Plumber) and nothing ever gets the attention it deserves. If all these (very valid) "conspiracy theories" were against NObama's opposition, you and the other Obots would be all over it, but since they are about Nobama so, everything is ignored. Obots would find excuses for NObama even if we had clear and verified unadulterated video of him shooting a child in the head. I am sure they would say the video was "out of context". The stupidity and cult-like following is just amazing. I don't know how he did it or why half of the population was not affected by his spell, but he sure brainwashed and blinded millions of people. I hope this at least gets investigated. If it is all just a conspiracy, then Nobama can be cleared. But why do the media and the authorities just ignore everything? Why the refusal to produce BC, college records, medical records, and everythingt that presidential candidates usually produce? Only Obots don't see anything suspicious or wrong with that. UNFREAKINGBELIEVABLE!
Posted by: Obamarxist Sorry, my comment above should have been directed to Purple American (Obot), NOT jwtusjp. By the way, the BIG "discovery" about Sarah Palin supposedly not writing for the school paper is REALLY serious. Wow, that could destroy her political career and send her to jail, LOL. See how ridiculous you sound when you don't have any REAL dirt on someone? GET A LIFE Obot! Posted by: Obamarxist First, I don't understand something. If he should've registered when 18 years old, should that have been in 1979, not 80? Second, the entire section at the upper right corner is blotted out. We can discern its number, 3. What's that about? Could that be a PLACE OF BIRTH? Could that have been that he DID fill out the card, and later at data center it was discovered that he's not a citizen, so it was stored away but never processed through the system so didn't get ins DLN number, and THAT's what needs to be covered up now?
Posted by: Will48 "Registration of young men with the Selective Service System was resumed in 1980 after a 5-year suspension. Peacetime draft registration of young men born in 1960 and 1961 was conducted in a 2-week period in July 1980, and a subsequent registration of those born in in 1962 was carried out in a 1-week period in January 1981. Since then, the Selective Service has conducted continuous registration whereby young men are required to register at the post office within 30 days of the date they reach 18 years of age." Source: July 28, 1982 Statement of Dr. Kenneth Coffey, Associate Director (Military), Federal Personnel and Compensation Divison, before a subcommittee of the House Committee on the Judiciary
Posted by: JBean My sons are twins, they each signed up for selective service on or near their 18th birthday in November 2001. Their numbers are close to each other and near to Obama's. It is a stretch of probability that the twin's numbers would be so close without the selective service number being a sequence. Thus I logically infer that Obama's number -- if the one given out so far is accurate -- was issued in or near November 2001. Posted by: bvw I have been going over all of this info and I read the comments last nite...Did anyone notice that on the card portion that is hand-written there is a phone number and on the SSS it denotes zeroes except for the area code. I looked up my husband's card and he registered in 81. The postal mark is 4 digits and, as I was in the service, dug up old mail and there are indeed four digits denoting the year for letters rec'd in 1980.
On his own website he posted a birht cert that was a forged document. Does that not warrant questions?
You certainly got behind Dan Rather and his fictitious story about the President and had this been GW Bush, you all would have taken to the streets and demanded investigations. Why the double standard? The trouble is that there is a D behind his name and you close your eyes and plug your ears. I was told by another COW supporter that what I read was "Shit" because it came from Malkin or ATR.org. IF it had come from the Huffpo though, they would have turned on one of their own, truth be damned.
Posted by: defendusa Obamarxist, I do not appreciate the insults from you. You have the right to disagree with other people's opinions but I draw the line at name-calling. I have family in the field of journalism and others who happen to be conspiracy theorists. First of all, the obvious downside of our 24/7 news exposure between cable TV and the Internet is the plethora of non news. Anyone can put something up on a blog and within minutes, it's tossed around the world as "news", even something being bounced around for months. I am not attacking Ms. Schlussel's discovery or her right to post it. [Debbie, have other people who registered around the time as Obama post their records for a direct comparison. Speaking as a historian, it's hard to find inconsistencies when there isn't anything to compare it to.] I am asking all the people who are upset with the results of the election to realize that had the GOP won, there would be conspiracy theorists on the other end about McCain's health issues or Palin's qualifications. It works both ways. I also have family directly connected with the federal government (in pretty high positions) and EVERYTHING you have ever done is checked on before you are granted any real security clearance, especially something as simple as citizenship or Selective Service registration (if male). As for Palin, I never claimed to have any "dirt" on her. If you truly read through my comments, I am suggesting that one needs to stick with one conspiracy theory and work with that instead of patching one up from a bunch of them as some of these posters have been doing. I'm saying that a lot of people are having difficulty accepting a black man as the president-elect (and not necessarily readers of this blog). SOME of the conspiracy theory I have seen bounced around the Net is thinly veiled racism. I have concerns about the same thing occuring if a Jew were to actually aspire to this office. If this were true, there would be a lot of people crying "foul" here instead of egging it on. [Did you even read my point about the birth certificate? If a city computerized their records, it's all on a database now and they print it out for you. Therefore, a person born in 1970 in Detroit could get the same type of certificate now as someone born in 2008 in Detroit.] Allow objective experts to compare similar records from that period for their legitimacy. Posted by: purple american purple 'American': The point of your post seems to have been to call the rest of us conspiracy theorists and racists. Wonderful! I too have family in ultra high positions in the fedgov, and I have gone through clearance processes. Yes some things are checked, but not to all levels -- someone could have a fraudulently acquired selective service number exactly per the scenario suggested in re Obama, and it would not be easy to pick up on -- it would take an extra effort. Yet what makes you think Obama has had any vetting at all for a security clearance? Still, you gave a great piece of advice -- get comparatives. Get selective service filings for a few men from around same purported registration day. Thanks for that last, but work on your respect for others. Posted by: bvw When one applies for a federal position, they are vetted. No one disagrees with that proposition I think. But usually that person is working for an agency, department, branch of service, etc. They have direct lines of authority and are responsible to other directors, agencies, etc. But who in the heck vets the POTUS? The FBI? CIA? All those agencies are responsible to the POTUS in some way or another-budgets, directors, appointments, Presidential Orders, and the list goes on. You don't let the eggs vet the rooster. If the FBI were to vet a potential POTUS of the opposite party to the current POTUS and something came out, imagine the cries of political use of a federal agency, lies, and so on and so on. I am really interested if someone can point to a specific federal agency rule, law, regulation, whatever, that gives a federal agency the right and requirement to vet a potential POTUS. Posted by: Sean Purple American
Posted by: defendusa purple -- "[Did you even read my point about the birth certificate? If a city computerized their records, it's all on a database now and they print it out for you. Therefore, a person born in 1970 in Detroit could get the same type of certificate now as someone born in 2008 in Detroit.]" I read it, and you obviously don't understand the distinction between a short form (COLB or Certification of Live Birth) and a "long form" -- the actual document image of a birth certificate. You may be able to obtain a COLB at the city level, but I don't know of any state that doesn't centralize vital records in a state department (usually the Dept. of Health). Most of those are accessible on line, and all that I'm familiar with offer the option of the (cheaper and faster) COLB, or the (more expensive, and slower to obtain) long form. The COLB is simply the bare facts taken from the long form and entered into a central database. The original long form is always preserved either on microfiche or digitally, for legal reasons. For example, the Dept. of Hawaiian Home Lands mentions both documents as follows: "DHHL utilizes information that is found only on the original Certificate of Live Birth, which is either black or green. This is a more complete record of your birth than the Certification of Live Birth (a computer-generated printout). Submitting the original Certificate of Live Birth will save you time and money since the computer-generated Certification requires additional verification by DHHL." Imagine that: The Department of Hawaiian Homelands requires additional verification for a COLB, but no agency or branch of the US Government has authority or responsibility to verify the computer-generated certification of birth of a candidate for the highest office in the land. P.S. The reason the DHHL requires "further certification" is that birth certificates can be amended, sealed and re-issued under many circumstances, and the COLB does not always represent the facts on the original certificate. Posted by: JBean Just being picky here:
It remains to be seen whether this turns out to be Barack Obama's "Christmas in Cambodia" untruth, his Dukakis-in-tank hilarity -- or both. Regardless, what follows is a pretty obvious "misstatement" that would not possibly be ignored if it were uttered by a conservative or a Republican. In his hilariously titled post ("Mighta Joined If He Coulda Capped Some Cong") on Barack Obama's interview in a barn this morning (not kidding) on This Week with George Stephanopoulos, fellow NewsBuster Mark Finkelstein reported on Obama's answer to a viewer's question about whether he ever considered military service. You can read Mark's post for his overall thoughts, but I want to focus on something the Illinois senator said that several commenters at the post took exception to (photo courtesy DayLife): You know, I had to sign up for Selective Service when I graduated from high school. .... But keep in mind: I graduated in 1979. There are only two "little" problems:
1. Selective Service Registration was not possible in 1979.
The Wikipedia entry on Obama's early life agrees with the candidate's memory of when he graduated (other verification will be obtained after this post goes up): Obama returned to Honolulu to live with his maternal grandparents while attending Punahou School, a private college preparatory school, from the fifth grade until his graduation in 1979. Wiki's Selective Service entry says the following about the registration requirements at the time: On March 25, 1975, Pres. Gerald Ford signed Proclamation 4360, Terminating Registration Procedures Under Military Selective Service Act, eliminating the registration requirement for all 18-25 year old male citizens. Then on July 2, 1980, President Jimmy Carter signed Proclamation 4771, Registration Under the Military Selective Service Act, retroactively re-establishing the Selective Service registration requirement for all 18-26 year old male citizens born on or after January 1, 1960. Only men born between March 29, 1957, and December 31, 1959, were completely exempt from Selective Service registration. The first registrations after Proclamation 4771 took place on Monday, July 21, 1980, for those men born in January, February and March 1960 at U.S. Post Offices. Tuesdays, Wednesdays and Thursdays were reserved for men born in the later quarters of the year, and registration for men born in 1961 began the following week. ++++++++++++++++++ Obama could not have registered "when I graduated from high school," as he claimed. He actually registered roughly 45 days after the first post-Proclamation 4771 registrations took place in 1980. Obama's statement, that "I had to sign up for Selective Service when I graduated from high school," is inarguably false. Further, the correct timeline casts serious doubt on what Obama said between the ellipsed segments of the first excerpt above: And I was growing up in Hawaii, and I had friend whose parents were in the military, there were a lot of Army, military bases there. And I always actually thought of the military as some ennobling and honorable option. More likely: He signed up when he did because he had to. Nothing more, nothing less. This would appear to be yet another example of resume enhancement. Cross-posted at BizzyBlog.com. —Tom Blumer is president of a training and development company in Mason, Ohio, and is a contributing editor to NewsBusters Posted by: laser--*52609 I have a question for Debbie. Where are you going with this. Is the info being turned over to the DOJ or some other authority? Posted by: MIDDLE CLASS GUY I just wanted to say thanks for the amount of work to get this info out! Also, FYI, the Wiki BHO signature link above has apparently been scrubbed. Posted by: PortiaE It would help readers a little if you could give us more information about these documents. How did they arrive in your hands? Does the owner still have the envelope with the sender's return address and the postmark? Can he supply us with a timeline of the process that he went through, which resulted in receipt of these documents? If I understand correctly what everyone has said so far, it appears that there is some connection between these computerized images and the COLB at Obama-supporting websites (Ducky, Adobe). How can that be? Can anybody tell us what "Ducky" means? Was the FOIA request responded to via e-mail? I have never sent a FOIA request, but I would expect that the data would arrive via snail mail and SOMEHOW that the documents would be certified as having come from the sending government agency. Otherwise, how could anyone know what the documents actually represent? The fact that the images of the COLB did not have an embossed seal illustrates this problem. How is it that the second part of the documentation is a screen shot? Didn't they send an actual printed document? Is it possible to pull data up on a screen and then insert a number in front of another number before printing (or transmitting via e-mail) the screenshot? How would that be done? From my experience, back in 1980, IF this data was entered into a file so that it could later be printed out, it's likely that the DLN number had a fixed length. It would not be possible for a keypuncher or a data entry operator (depending upon when computerization took place) to enter 11 digits into a 10-digit field. So how do you propose that someone entered that leading "8" into the screenshot or the printout that we see here? I also spotted that the second document did not contain the full phone number. Why would that be? The only explanation that I can think of is that whoever sent the document did not want Madelyn Dunham's home flooded with phone calls. Would it be likely that authorities would "redact" a phone number but NOT the identifying DLN number? They probably would not have made up a phone number, because people might then start calling that number, resulting in unwanted publicity and attention to the issue. The big black smudge at the top right redacts the SS#, which would be the one item that we would need to confirm this information at the Selective Service website. If the same person filled out this form, why did the person begin by using lowercase letters for the top date (August) and then switch to all uppercase letters for the rest of the text? It does appear as if someone wrote in the street name after the rest of the data, as if they weren't sure of the spelling. Wouldn't he know how to spell the street where he lived? My point in asking about how the documents arrived is: How does the recipient know for sure that they came from the Selective Service office in Chicago? [MGB: READ THE UPDATE ABOUT RETIRED FEDERAL AGENT STEPHEN COFFMAN, WITHIN THIS ENTRY. DS] Posted by: MGB Obama's SSS# is 61-112539-1, which is generated by the govt when the receive the registration. Are you foolish enough to believe that all these registration forms sitting in desks across the country already contain the numbers which will be assigned the registrant? The provided link on DLN, does not discuss what the numbers mean. Now your source says the standardization of Gov DLN's use the first two numbers for the year, yet the very IRS says the first two numbers refer to the district or service center. http://books.google.de/books?id=6hGBJBo7Jv0C&pg=PA1018&lpg=PA1018&dq=IRS+DLN+regions&source=web&ots=aC658xfBrv&sig=a845IlPX7km-LKbtbvnRetKhAcw&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result Pg 1018, first sentence. So either your source is talking himself up, or he don't really know a thing about DLN's. Now if someone else could post their SSS# DLN it seems once again a swing and a miss... The circular postal stamp has been in use atleast as late as 1999. http://www.linns.com/howto/refresher/postmarks_19990726/refreshercourse.asp Posted by: TCorn Why is the "80" in the postal mark offset, as if there ought to be a "19" but it's not there? One would expect that if the year is supposed to have only 2 digits, the year would be nicely aligned beneath the rest of the information (i.e.,centered). Posted by: MGB Hello Debbie! I had a bit of trouble signing in to leave this. Daniel Amon is the contact Pajamasmedia claimed they received confirmation of Barack Obama's SSS from. http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/obama-did-obama-actually-register-for-selective-service/2/ It is a rumor that the Obama campaign has chosen to ignore despite numerous requests, and it is a rumor that even Snopes couldn't seem to confirm or deny definitively. After contacting the Selective Service System for an answer several times since late June, Pajamas Media obtained official confirmation from the Selective Service System via email that Barack Obama did indeed register for the Selective Service as required by law, and is eligible to run for the presidency. Mr. Owens, Barack Hussein Obama registered at a post office in Hawaii. The effective registration date was September 4, 1980. His registration number is 61-1125539-1. Daniel Amon
FROM: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2040486/posts?page=4920#4920Interesting. I can't seem to find a Daniel Amon with the SSS.gov. I see him quoted as a spokesperson often in KOS type forums and articles. BUT, I was able to find a Daniel Amon, a Project Manager with Art-Z Graphics. Art-Z Graphics also does contract work for the SSS.gov.See for example: 2, Footer, in "invisible ink". Make this graphic show Debbie: http://goexcelglobal.com/images/DanAmon.gif http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Art-Z+Graphics+Daniel+Amon&btnG=Google+Search[PDF] SSS Annual Report 2004FINAL.inddFile Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML ... Military Selective Service Act, Section 10(g). Cover Design and Layout, Laurie Zaleski and Neal Dallmer of Art-Z Graphics. Project manager, Dan Amon. ... www.sss.gov/PDFs/SSS_Annual_ReportFY04.pdf - Similar pages Maybe someone can confirm Dan Amon's position with SSS.gov? Especially since I found him to be a graphics expert with SSS.gov and Debbie found a doctered SSS form for Barack Obama? Selective Service System’s Arlington, VA headquarters at 703-605-4100 Posted by: CalperniaUSA good god calpernia and MGB nice work! Posted by: MissTickly Take some caution though. A project manager usually oversees the content and design and is not the artist him/herself. Posted by: MissTickly MGB, Is it possible to pull data up on a screen and then insert a number in front of another number before printing (or transmitting via e-mail) the screenshot? How would that be done? As a long-time mainframe programmer (that screen shot is from a mainframe), I can tell you that not only is it possible, but I did that all the time for work purposes. It became possible when we switched from mainframe-dedicated monitors to using PC workstations. You can use the same copy/paste features of a PC for some mainframe work. Here's how you could add a digit: You bring up the display screen with the correct information, highlight the screen with the mouse, and copy it. Then go into the mainframe edit option, open an empty file, and paste. The screen shot is now in a file that can be modified. You type in the extra digit, adjust any alignment issues, and then print from the edited file. Simple. Anyone with editing access to mainframe files can do it. Posted by: SkyePuppy SkyePuppy -- Interesting. Could the edited file then be stored on the mainframe? If not, what would it take to add or edit a record permanently? It seems that this record existed back in August, when Almon sent that email, and it still existed when Stephen Coffman sent his FOIA request in October. There seems to be some sort of disconnect between the image file and the RIMS screen -- either that or both SSS employees realized there was a problem with the record and tried to avoid supplying the image. Posted by: JBean I still don't understand whether Mr. Coffman received these documents via e-mail or snail mail. Does anybody know? It makes a difference. btw, thanks for the info about how to edit on the screen. I'd like to see more documentation on these images, such as the mailing envelope or, if received electronically, then some kind of signature that indicates where it came from. Posted by: MGB If you go to Wikipedia and verify the signature of Obama with the signature on the SS form you will see they are entirely different. Which signature is correct...can anybody explain. Posted by: MdDeeDa
Several men (vets included) about the same age as Obama record their own experiences and memories of registering for Selective Service. WE seem to be at a point where we should be comparing SSS#s and DLNs from about that time. Anyone know how to contact these men? I don't. Also this question looms. Where did Obama spend his summer after his freshman year at Occidental? Any proof he returned to Hawai'i? Or did he register by mail? (as brought up as possibility in the discussion below). Apologies: I also don't know for sure how to post a live link. Posted by: laser--*52609 MGB,
Posted by: paigenalex Laser, My card has the same processing date as Obama- September 4th, 1980. My Selective Service number (I'm going out on a limb here because I don't think there's any personal data in the number) is 61-1076250-4. I looked it up on the Selective Service website and do not have a physical card to examine. Clearly the first 2 numbers indicate year of birth "61". I think the middle numbers are sequential, as in 1,076,250. Obama's SSN is 61-1125539-1. Again, 1st 2 numbers are year of birth. 2nd set probably means the 1,125,539th registrant. This is plausible. Since this would be the beginning of re-registering for the draft, the data center would be handling very heavy volume. Our two numbers, processed on the same day (9-4-1980), would be 49,289 apart. That's quite a few cards in one day. I've never worked in a data center such as Selective Service used/uses, so I really can't speak to whether that type of one-day volume is do-able or not. Fascinating to participate in this...whatever it is we're doing. P.S. Don't tell Obama's digital brown shirts! Posted by: paigenalex Laser, One more thing. What does the last digit signify? Perhaps region? Mine (MN) is "4" and Obama's is "1". That would make sense if regions were counted West to East.
Posted by: paigenalex This is just another missing bit of info on the alleged prez elect... Another thing I can't find is a reason why Barry and Michell both lost their Law licenses in Illinois... Is it possible that they gave false info to the Ill. BAR (such as this and the bogus birth cert) and gave up their licenses to avoid scrutiny? Posted by: Hazardous_T I am a little disgusted with some of the posters. Even if obama is taken off the list as president, Biden would still be sworn in, and he can select a VP. Now that said. It makes no difference that McCain/Palin lost, in this case, what is at issue is being sought to be brought to resolution is this...if a person who is to take the office of President of the US can't submit a simple birth certificate or a simple selective service form that is not forged, what in the devil can we expect him to do when it comes to something of natural security. WOULD YOU TRUST HIM, HECK NO. Posted by: MdDeeDa The Selective Service responded to my FOIA by US Postal Service. I still have the letter, envelope, and copies of the two documents. I scanned the two attachments from the Selective Service letter (the form and screen printout) using an HP printer/scanner (I am not at home so I don't have the model number). I then attached the images to an email (via yahoo.com) and sent it to Debbie Schlussel's email address. Anyone can request these same documents from the Selective Service. Go to www.sss.gov and click on the FOIA length. I am sure they will be happy to get your request! ;) There is NO CHARGE for the FOIA. Remember that the Postal stamp on the form is not a cancellation stamp but a Postal validator stamp (I believe it is item 570 of the Postal Operations Manual). The Selective Service record retention period is until the registrant's 85th birthday so a two digit year in the DLN is required otherwise there would be six or several duplicate numbers. There is a difference between a Selective Service Registration Number and a Document Locator Number. I am sure my FOIA request is now marked with its own DLN. I hope that answers the questions. If you do submit a FOIA consider asking for DLN on both sides of the DLN for Senator Obama's SSS Form 1. Don't make it the one just before or just after bracket it by 100 or so each way. Then if they all are 1980 documents case closed. If they are all 2008 documents case is also closed, but with a different outcome. I am not against anyone. I am just a retired fact finder and flaw detector. What you think or do with the information is up to each one of you. If you have any other questions, please let me know. Posted by: StephenCoffman To Debbie Schlussel thank you for posting this information. It is funny how people want to make the IRS manual the authority over how numbers are interpreted that are assigned by the OMB. Then again what do we expect from those who want larger goverment, to see if we can exhaust 3 letter alphabet combinations -- challenge of a lifetime! However it certainly does appear that, along with Mr. Obama seeming to have a problem producing a physician signed birth certificate, producing his "medical records" versus "a letter from his doctor," and producing any of the information he'd been asked for by the media in regard to Rezko, that once again the Illinois Senator produces something impeachable as to it's authenticity (Obama tends to do this where his charm and misdirective Alinsky style speaking method will not be accepted.) As the great socialist lawyer President FDR before him, Barack identifies clearly that as long as the money powers are on Obama's side (George Soros, and a host of others, together worth 500 billion dollars.) he can do no wrong. Sadly Americans are so gullible that they'd believe Obama, who had Frank Davis as his teenage confidante in Angry Black Poetry, and to help Obama identity with himself as an African-American before 1980, would register for the draft. Now in light of Obama studying Malcom X as well, a man who said: "No, I'm not an American. I'm one of the 22 million black people who are the victims of Americanism. One of the 22 million black people who are the victims of democracy, nothing but disguised hypocrisy. So, I'm not standing here speaking to you as an American, or a patriot, or a flag-saluter, or a flag-waver -- no, not I. I'm speaking as a victim of this American system. And I see America through the eyes of the victim. I don't see any American dream; I see an American nightmare." (Emphasis mine. See http://www.historicaldocuments.com/Ball ... lcolmX.htm, paragraph 9.) Note Malcom X is part of Obama's study of Angry Black Poetry as he has discussed in his autobiography. Thus the notion Obama would register for the draft, with the exception of political gain, is more than implausible. Liberals want to believe this man who claimed change while referring to his grandmother as "a typical white person," is not going to let them down. This is a man who lied about Auschwitz in his big deal 2002 speech against the war (referring to U.S. Soldiers as freeing Auschwitz), and again in 2007 after being informed of the error 5 years earlier (This time it was Obama's Uncle who was in the lead brigade of U.S. Soldiers freeing Auschwitz and Treblinka.), and yet they believe him. A man whose minister asked Hannity "What do you know about Black Liberation Theology?" which, once you study, you find clear succinct explanation for the Che Guevara illustrations in Obama Campaign offices across America. So no surprises here that he falsified another document, or misdirected people from knowing the truth about anything pertaining to Obama that would lead a reasonable person to conclude he is not trustworthy. Obama's whole campaign was in reliance on our inability to be trusted with the truth, and instead, gullible to anyone who caters to our self interest -- $500 to $1,000 is cheap cost to buy votes, especially while fueling hatred for the wealthy, and, achieving endless opportunity to claim capitalism has failed. It's not difficult to see what more will come from a man who, during his entire political career never once reported corruption in Chicago Politics, the capital of political corruption that is now moving to Washington DC thanks to the well uninformed, blinded by their self interest and hatred for anything conservative or those with wealth. Posted by: nokneejerking I just checked my SS record and mine is 10 digits with a starting set of 74. I registered in 1992, but I was BORN in 74. If the first two digits reflect my year of birth, then at or around 1990, it was changed to show the year of birth and his should have been 61, not 80. -UndergroundRev
Posted by: UndergroundRev Thank you Debbie and Stephen! Stephen, could you please explain the difference between a cancellation stamp and a Postal validator stamp? Or perhaps the former postal worker that posted earlier today could weigh in on this. I am just wondering what they are supposed to look like. Thanks! Posted by: Ladyhawke112 You know what.. scratch my last comment. Low blood sugar + tin hat = bad post. Posted by: UndergroundRev It's fun to watch the extreme right grasp at this straw the same way the extreme left grasped at George Bush's AWOL National Guard experience. It's great to be in the middle. None of this stuff matters in the middle... just do a good job is all we ask of a political leader. Posted by: James Scearce "It's fun to watch the extreme right grasp at this straw the same way the extreme left grasped at George Bush's AWOL National Guard experience. It's great to be in the middle. None of this stuff matters in the middle... just do a good job is all we ask of a political leader. Posted by: James Scearce [TypeKey Profile Page] at November 14, 2008 05:55 PM" Oh, yeah, it's teh fun to be brain dead, dude! Let us know how it's working out for you, oh, about 2010 -- unless, of course, you're a goobermint/academia worker, because then it's all good, with O! And, by the way, Rather lost his job with the TANG forgeries. But that was back in the dusty, pre-dawn past where the media could be at least goosed by facts to tell the truth. Now, not so much.
Posted by: JBean Mr. Scearce, Who appointed you to be the spokesman for the "middle" and when did this so-called "middle" inform you that "doing a good job" is all that they ask of their political leader? One other question: hypothetically speaking, if your political were to deceive the American people regarding various and sundry issues — both personal and public — would that influence your assessment of whether he’s doing a "good job"? Posted by: CTN On mail, a cancellation (or cancel for short) is a postal marking applied to a postage stamp or postal stationery indicating that the item has been used. They are to be distinguished from overprints, and, in the case of the British "Occasions - Multiple Choice" stamps, from the ticking of boxes on the stamps with a pen for which the stamps call.[1] Modern cancellations are often applied simultaneously with a postmark, for efficiency, and commonly the terms "cancellation" and "postmark" are used interchangeably, if incorrectly. (The confusion arises because of the practice of some postal administrations of applying the postmark directly on the stamp, at the cost of legibility.)" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cancellation_(mail) A round stamp, also called a validator is a hands operated "rubber stamp" that is used to validate a document such a receipt. A cancellation mark could be as simple as a handwritten "X" to mark the stamp so that it can not be reused. Posted by: StephenCoffman The Selective Service number on the printout ends with a 1 which means region 1 Chicago IL
Posted by: Holly Holly, My Selective Service number was 61-1076250-4. I was processed the same day as Obama (9-4-1980). I lived in northern Minnesota at the time. I probably would have been assigned to the Chicago region. My last digit is a "4" Clearly there were other regions back then. Posted by: paigenalex For those of you who's Selective Service registration was processed the same day, why dont you do a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) to get a copy of your SSS Form 1 (it is free and info is on the www.sss.gov website). Then we can compare it with Obama's. Posted by: StephenCoffman Stephen, Thank you for your explanation. Now we need someone to way in on the security of cancel stamps. In the current example, I am curious of the lack of the "19" on the stamp. Posted by: Ladyhawke112 look at the Jul 29 80 stamp. the font is different from the 29 and the 80. notice the 80 is chopped off at the top. or is it the bottom of the 08 turned upside down with the 20 cut off? look at it as 2008 upside down minus the 20. what do y'all see? Posted by: msthunderhead In looking at the SSS.gove site, at the bottom of the records page, it does say that if you want to obtain a copy of the card, and you were born after 1959, then you write to an address in Palatine, IL. You still ahve to provide written proof that the person himself is requesting it or provide a death cert.
Posted by: defendusa Note the postmark, Jul 29 80. The 80 is displaced about one space to the right--as if it was originally 08, but someone changed it to 80. What is a postmark supposed to look like? The only ones I have handy display the entire year (2005, 2008). Posted by: Winged Hussar 1683 I havn't read this whole comment section, so maybe this has already been addressed.
Posted by: Flossie For those questioning the Poastmark. I am a USPS clerk who has worked the "window" where customers do there business with the USPS. The in the round daters that we use have complete year, example if the round dater was ordered in 2007, you would have complete rubber pieces for 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011 2012. Since i have only been an employee since the late 90's i cannot inform you on the USPO round daters, but i would imagine that the year would have been one whole piece as well. I say that because as mentioned earlier, it would explain why the year is not centered under the day. Why the full year is not there is a good question. The 8 in the year does hold dcharacteristics of it being 80 not 08. The eights used on our round daters have a narrower top loop than the bottom loop. As far as a cancellation stamp, it is different than a round dater. Stamp cancellation ususally consists of some type of text with wavy lines after it that actually roll over a stamp. Any markings or ink on a stamp cancels it, either before or after you use it. The round dater is an official stamp to record a date and validate any thing requiring a date. It can be used to cancel a stamp since is is ink based. Even though i feel that this document raises a lot of questions, I do not feel that it is fake. I think that Obama just has the bad luck of questionable circumstances. However I do feel that the questions reguarding his citizenship need to be answered. Posted by: tjwill62 Debbie, I have just rewiewed your Breitbart.com interview and while I found it to be very informational, the production value was less than desirable, and I could see that being a little off-putting to those we would want to hang around long enough to absorb this information. Any chance of doing a PowerPoint Presentation, (or whatever medium is easier for you), and posting it on every video messaging site around the world? While I appreciate all of your efforts in this very iportant issue, if the issue is not presented to the American People in a More Professional manner, I am afraid that the Issue will be ignored due to Audio Quality, Inaccurate and Disjointed manner in which the Interview was assembled. Please use a Script and a better audio device next time to present the facts that you are trying to influence the American Public with. The More Amatuerish the Presentation, the More Amatuerish your research becomes especially in the Eyes of the People we so desperately need to reach with this information. Young Americans that just may be Drafted in an Obama Adinistration! Refardless if you accept my Constructive Criticism or not, please keep up all your hard work! This is a Very Important Issue!!! Posted by: SirJaxx You only have to register if you are a citizen. I don't believe Obama is a citizen, and just because his wife claims they paid student loans off with his book money doesn't mean it was HIS loans... they could have been hers.
Posted by: Allie JUL 29 80 stamp question to those who may know. on a stamp from 1980, does the digits indicating the day (29) differ in size and style font from the digits that indicate the year (80)? also would the stamp have a defect to the point of omitting the 19 and chop off the top of the 80? all 8's i've ever seen (other than hand written) the top and bottom loop are either equal in size or the bottom loop will be larger than the top loop. my belief is that the ..80 is not part of the stamp date. the size and style of the digits don't match from '29' and '80'. if you tilt your head to the right and look at the 80, fill in the missing ink with your minds eye, you may envision the top loop as being LARGER than the bottom. making it upside down. now add to your minds eye a 02 following the 0 in 80. like look at this upside down....8002...(mirror the 2). or better yet, look at your comp.screen upside down and look at this 2008 SEE that put the larger loop at the top. is that why the (top)loop is cut off as to not notice the oddity of a lg.top loop on a sm bottom loop. sorry having a hard time explaining. wish i could just point with my finger and say see!
Posted by: msthunderhead Allie, Your comment stating that you only have to register if you are a citizen is not correct. See: http://www.military.com/Resources/ResourceFileView?file=Selective_Service_Who.htm
If you are eligible to register with Selective Service and fail to do so on time, you may receive a fine of up to $250,000 and/or five years in jail. Registering with Selective Service is Federal law. It is also required to stay eligible for many Federal and state benefits. All young men living in the U.S., with very few exceptions, are required to register within 30 days of turning 18. Noncitizens and Dual Nationals Noncitizens who are not required to register with Selective Service include men who are in the U.S. on student or visitor visas, and men who are part of a diplomatic or trade mission and their families. Almost all other male noncitizens are required to register, including illegal aliens, legal permanent residents, and refugees. Dual nationals of the U.S. and another country are required to register, regardless of where they live, because they are U.S. nationals. The general rule is that if a male noncitizen takes up residency in the U.S. before his 26th birthday, he must register with Selective Service. For further details on alien and dual national registration, see this list of exemptions. For a more detailed list of which noncitizens must register, see this chart. Hospitalized or Incarcerated Men Young men in hospitals, mental institutions or prisons do not have to register while they are committed. However, they must register within 30 days after being released if they have not yet reached their 26th birthday. Disabled Men Disabled men who live at home must register with Selective Service if they can reasonably leave their homes and move about independently. A friend or relative may help a disabled man fill out the registration form if he can't do it himself. Men with disabilities that would disqualify them from military service still must register with Selective Service. Selective Service does not presently have authority to classify men, so even men with obvious handicaps must register now, and if needed, classifications would be determined later. Full-Time Military Exempted From Requirement Young men serving in the military on full-time active duty do not have to register. Those attending the service academies do not have to register. If a young man leaves the military before turning 26, he must register. National Guard and Reserves Members of the Reserve and National Guard not on full-time active duty must register. Conscientious Objectors If you want to be classified as a Conscientious Objector if you are drafted, you must also register with Selective Service. If a draft begins and you are called, you will have the opportunity to file a claim for exemption from military service based upon religious or moral objection to war. Women and Registration Women are not required to register, as the Selective Service Law as it is currently written refers specifically to "male persons" in stating who must register and who would be drafted. For women to be required to register with Selective Service, Congress would have to amend the law. The DoD recognizes that policies regarding women need to be reviewed periodically because the role of women in the military continues to expand. The Selective Service System, if given the mission and additional funding, is capable of registering and drafting women with its existing infrastructure.
Posted by: ldtaylor How can this be happening????!!! Obama will destroy everything that this country has built - including the very system that paved the way for him to have the freedom and government assistance that ensured his bright future. Why??? Why are people so stupid? Is it collective guilt from white baby boomers and gen-Xers? An angry black man with a Muslim sensibility who will have his white-palmed brown finger on the nuke button? Oh my fucking G-d. Pray for us, pray for Israel. We're fucked. Posted by: ObamaSlammaJamma Dear Debbie, I was looking at the document that was shown and noticed all the things you pointed out. One thing I also noticed and was not mentioned: #4 Trouble making an O? Prints an O above after making smaller o first. Person not use to signing a name with capital O #5 Apt # 1008, actually it's more like 1oo8 Once again smaller o #6 The word "ABovE" o smaller, most other letters in "above" are capitalized #7 8o8
#9 July 30,l980
Thank you for the work you are doing
Posted by: shilor The Supreme Court is our only hope! The Executive branch has been demonized for 8 years: any response there would be called partisan, the Legislative branch is already in the tank. Pro-Obama defenders seem to be everywhere. For them, the end justifies the means. This is a win-win situation for them because "crisis" suits them just fine. A smart lawyer is needed who can move this quickly through the courts and get it to the Supreme Court before December 15th, or by any means prior to January 20th. (Visualize trying to sink a toy boat. Just keep loading pebbles on it in hopes of sinking it.) After reading Diamond Tiger's 3-part series on Obama's Socialism: Decades In The Making, it's obvious we have a huge job, a short time, and must keep on keeping on. Posted by: timothy222222 I just checked the selective service records for my two sons born in 62 and 63. Both of their 10 digit numbers start with the year of their births, not the years they registered. Both registrations were processed through the Great Lakes, IL office. Why would Obama's supposed number start with 08 or 80??? Posted by: sowsear Yes, I reread his supposed forms and see that his selective service number starts with 61. I was wrong. However, the numbers on the bottom of my sons' forms are:
I don't see anything that looks like a DLN number or wouldn't that be on their forms? Posted by: sowsear My sons lived in NY and the older's last number is 4 and younger is 9. Both seem to have been processed at Great Lakes, IL Posted by: sowsear 1980 ISHIKAWA Auction, Hawaii Stamps and Postal History
Posted by: tbontiq If the DLN is sequentially incremented, then one could look at the microfilmed records before and after this particular document to see if it falls within the date boundaries of these bracketing records. Though a few records immediately before and after it can get mysteriously "lost", one can still search thousands of records forward or back to see if it falls within their date ranges. It's now not a matter of just destroying a few records to cover their trail; they'd have to burn the building down. Posted by: Kamper K I don't know if it means anything, but my draft card from 1973 has a nine-digit SSS number of the form: NN NNN NN NN. None of the digits are the year. Posted by: robertdog sowsear: Obama's SSSN is shown as 61-1125539-1. Note the middle sequence 1125539. If you could what are the first few digits of your sons' SSSNs? Posted by: bvw robertdog: your sssn is the old format. Back in the sixties and earlier it used to be as follows:XX-YYY-ZZ-NN..N XX � code for state (or district/territory) issued YYY � local board number ZZ � year of birth NN..N -- the registration number, the chronological sequence number that the registration was accepted at the local board
Posted by: bvw To jump into the fray, I looked up my husband, brother and my sons numbers. All begin with their birthdates. My husbands registration date was July 30, and my brother was July 29. Regarding the last numbers of the SSS, and what they mean IF they are tied to districts. I cannot answer that, since I do not work for SSA - but my husbands ends in 9, whereas my sons end in 3 and 4. My brother ends in 8. All 4 registered in the same state. Only one was born on the west coast. So going by what I see on my brothers and husbands (being in the same time frame as BHO - within 2-3 days of his 'filing') - BHO's SSS number is correct on one aspect, beginning in 61. Until I get the actual physical proof for my husbands, I do not know what the other number means, or will show. My sons signed up online. And I asked my brother to request his. Posted by: TC For those who think that 28 yrs is a long time to have the same phone number, it really isn't. My mother has had the same phone number for at least 52 yrs, within my memory, and I think it's actually 56 or 57 yrs at least. My grandmother had the same number for 38 yrs at least. I had the same number for 26 yrs in Calif., before I moved to Maine, and my ex still has the same number, 8 yrs later. If a person does not move outside the area covered by the telephone prefix, he/she has the option of keeping the same number. I did not support Obama -- I did not trust him from the beginning and I trust him less now. If he has nothing to hide, why not release the documents in question, like birth certificate, school records, etc.? And how could he have confused the year he registered? If a young man did not have to register when he turned 18, but did have to the following year, isn't that rather memorable? But if Obama did not register for the draft, it would be very easy to confuse the year: a young man has to register at 18, so "of course" he registered in 1979; he wouldn't remember that registration was not required in 1979 because he never registered anyway! Posted by: CalifGirlInMaine FWIW: the last digit in these type of numbers is something called a "checksum" and is used to verify that the whole number is accurate. OT: anybody remember seeing a "databus serial form checksum error" back in the day of DOS? That's what this was referring to. (Maybe that's not so off topic.) I used to write these type of systems, btw, and the checksum was calculated from the digits preceding it and, no, the whole numbers were not necessarily consecutive otherwise the checksums wouldn't work! Further, the arithmetic used to verify the checksum is not the same from one system to the next. Depended on the programmer. Posted by: Chris in Toronto oops. that should have been "data frame" not "data form"
Posted by: Chris in Toronto Debbie, could you this report, or a link to it, at the top of your blog for a while?
Posted by: timothy222222 The Selective Service Registration fraud probably won't go anywhere.
Posted by: timothy222222 The middle seven digits would appear to be sequential, resetting to zero each year. I registered in early March, 1981, and my SSSN begins with 63, the year of my birth. The middle seven digits are 0063XXX. The final number is 3. I registered in Wisconsin. Having the middle number be sequential and reset annually would accomodate ten million registrants a year, assuming the final number is not used in sequencing. Looking forward to further investigation of this issue. Even if it changes nothing, the truth ought to be known! Posted by: ubercheesehead Debbie: Thank you so much for bringing this out in the open! It would appear quite plausible that fraud has been committed. I call upon my president-elect to either clear his name and to prosecute those who have perpetrated the forgery OR if he is guilty then to promptly resign his elected post as Nixon did. Americans deserve better than to be beseiged by government corruption that has historically permeated Chicago politics. Posted by: nacilbupera Prosecuting Obama for failure to register cannot be done. The statute of limitations has elapsed. If it is proven he could be prosecuted for participating in the apparent fraudulent registration. I am not sure what the penalties are for that crime or what affect it my have on Obama assuming office. Perhaps Debbie can enlighten us. More importantly and not subject to the statute of limitations is the fact that a person who fails to register is permanently ineligible for a job in the executive branch of the federal government. I do not know for sure and perhaps Debbie can enlighten us but I do not believe that because the POTUS is elected to be the head of the executive branch that would make him immune from that aspect of the penalties for failing to register. Thus the need to bring this case to the proper authorities prior to December 15 2008 when the Electoral College meets is crucial. December 1 could be an important date also because that is when the Secretaries of States will be certifying their states� election results. Debbie and Stephen and anyone else who steps up on behalf of the American people regarding this issue needs to be careful. If the Obama crowd is anything like the Clinton crowd and there now seems to be a lot of ties in spite of the competition for the nomination they could be in danger.
Posted by: MIDDLE CLASS GUY It would seem that I read on the SSS web that the Cards are held until a man is 85...Unbelievable to me is the fact that this card and his birth certificate are in question...if a man is capable of forging documents to become President and is seemingly ineligible, then he Usurped the law! How has this not been questioned and investigated? It will make a mockery of the enire democratic process and then we have truly lost credibility. Are we the only people paying attention? Posted by: defendusa I pulled this from the SSS website. Year of Birth 1972
Search Criteria
Matched Record
Date of Registration
Posted by: NoBama Please I appreciate all the legwork done by all the above posters, but my brain hurts right now. So, I'm gonna throw my conspiracy theory into the ring. We may be barking up the wrong tree. Early in the thread BobonStatenIsland proposes that the coverup may have involved more than merely a registration date. What if the coverup is a BIRTH DATE? His evidence was Barry's claim that he was 8 years old at the time of Ayers activities. Something went "ZING" when I read about 2/3 down the page: "Only men born between March 29, 1957, and December 31, 1959, were completely exempt from Selective Service registration." Could we be looking at a forgery to "produce" a country of birth origin (Hawaii) when his mother might have been somewhere else in 1959...weighed with his grandmother's statement of being present at his birth in Kenya? I know it's a stretch to make 2 years "disappear" from a kid's life, but it would answer why no birth certificate can be produced. It would also answer why he never filled one out--if he was born in 1959,he never HAD to, according to law. But he DID have to prove citizenship, and this may have been the most "expeditious" manner to comply with requests for "location" when the looming issue centers (but not exclusively) on "when". Can someone validate conclusively where mom was in 1959? Posted by: millime millime- Unfortunately, there is probably no way to ever verify the whereabouts of mom during this whole period. The customs records that would show entry and exits from the US are surely gone now [due to age, nothing sinister] and I am sure the passport has long been replaced. And as far as Kenyan records are concerned, to be less than polite, that is a joke. Airline records would be long destroyed. Receipts from hotels, etc. all gone. The only real way to prove this is going to be an official, original birth CERTIFICATE from the State of Hawaii. And something tells me that is not going to be forthcoming anytime soon. This may be the second real crack in American adherence to the rule of law in the Presidency-the first being a sitting President committing a "high crime of misdemeanor" and staying in office. What will come next? Posted by: Sean http://www.jrsportfolio.com/phila/uspib/Bul027/27_1.pdf Interesting pictures of round daters in HI in 1980. All 4 digits. Includes USPO and USPS at bottom. Posted by: Fwapsk Now there is a fraudulent Selective service record. Barry ran to Hawaii to have his Birth records sealed and bribe the Governor of Hawaii to seal them just in case there were challanges to his being a legitimate citizen, WHICH HE IS NOT. So for all intents and purposes we have a Usurper about to assume the presidency of the United States. But the obamabots wanted change, 70% of obama's picks have been former Clinton Re-treads. So much for change and new blood in Washington. Oh, all you obama supporters enjoy your liberty, you have precious time left until your turn for Mandatory service comes into effect. Posted by: mark While I admit or confess no expertise in DLNs or how they are assigned, I was just looking at the one listed above and find it odd that the DLN just happens to start with the same area code as the phone number in Hawaii. In a way this makes sense if records were going to be tracked based on where the person resided and had a phone, the area code would be a good way to do it. And this in its own way comports with the IRS manual provided, with the first digits being location, just here, its the first three instead of two-which would all that the IRS would need to correlate the number to its filing center, of which there was a limited number. While I do believe it is a fake, the missing "19" in the date is unexplainable, I do not believe the DLN is as mysterious as it seems. Posted by: Sean JBean - November 14, 2008 02:20 PM (sorry, I've been away for the weekend): Yes, the edited screen-shot file can be saved on the mainframe. It can also be copied and pasted into a Notepad (.txt) file on a PC and can be emailed. Notepad is better than Word, because it preserves the non-incremental spacing like the mainframe, so you keep the same alignment. Posted by: SkyePuppy Hi Debbie Schlussel, I have forwarded this page (cached) to my contacts at the FBI, DOJ, and the CIA.
Posted by: BeCause ooooo, BeCoz...maybe he shouldn't shut down GitMo so soon. They might need a place for all of us on this blog if the president ELECT doesn't explain himself. {{{{shudder}}}} Posted by: millime Debbie, I have been reading all about Obama of late (birth certificate, or there lack of, the Selective Service Fraud, and many, many other things), including all of the comments to date on this blog. I am impressed by the number of people who have contributed, especially Debbie. Though there may be a statute of limitations for not registering for the selective service, however, this is outright fraud, perpetrated by power hungry fools and wantabees. These people are not doing our country any favors, however, in the grand scheme of things, and unfortunately, there is a grass roots throughout the world, an effort to undermine all that is great about our country. It appears to me, their is effort underway to bring about the demise of our country. The is first thing to do is try to cap future generations by destroying our unborn. The second thing to do is to take away any possible way of defending ourselves, i.e. total gun control. The third thing is to pervert the thoughts of our young, who are believing the dribble and lies being heaped upon them like, being owed government intervention into all facets of their lives. I remember during the Obama campaign rally's, there was a woman who was all fired up about Obama and believed if Obama is elected we won't have to worry any more about our mortgages or fuel for our cars. The government will take care of all of our needs. Who is Barry (Barack) Obama? Why is it he is above the law? In my eyes, I believe what we are seeing is a new coup to create a regime ruled by tyrants, gangsters, and social reformers who are not happy unless they can control the masses and conform them to an Orwellian society. They want to take away our freedoms of speech and if you say or think aloud any non-conformist thoughts or deeds, you will be put away, never to be heard again. Obama needs to be accountable for all of the lies and deceit he and his minion are dishing out and the hundred of millions of dollars that trusting people donated to his fraudulent cause. I see Obama as an empty vessel, who, depending on who he is talking to, will say what it is you want to hear. I remember reading how during the campaign he said he wants to do away with the NAFTA agreement, and then out of the other side of his mouth, he had his people reassure the Canadian Government he didn't mean what he said during the campaign speech, he was still wanting to keep NAFTA agreement in place. In addition, during the Odinga campaign in Kenya, Obama violated the terms of his passport to campaign for his friend/Cousin while he was a Senator, yet he was not punished for his intervention. He has been influenced by too many negative people throughout his life and actually believes his own press, that he is the Saviour of our pitiful lives and a Citizen of the World. Our leaders need to get away from trying to reward those who fail, by bailing them out. However, we need to come together on ways in which to do things smarter. Chrysler was bailed out years ago, however, if memory serves me correctly, the new CEO turned around the production garbage they were creating and started producing products that were built with pride and quality. We need to start working smarter, utilizing the God given talents and abilities to bring greatness back into our Country. Thank God for the rights we currently have, and pray for guidance of our Justices in the Courts currently evaluating his being a native born citizen. May God preserve our freedoms and protect those who are serving our Country, all over the world. And in this free country, thank God for those who may disagree with all that is right and just. You to have the freedom of speech. The signers of the Constitution are probably rolling over in their graves right now wondering what other fiasco will take place before the Courts find the truth. God save our Constitutional and moral values and help us to overthrow those that would try to destroy US. Posted by: Let_Freedom_Reign IF any of you are interested, Go to Atlas Shrugged Blog and read up on the Obama forgery. Snopes has said this was debunked, but if you google Philip Berg, Obama and read on, you can see the potential for the power grab and the forgering going on. Berg says he has Obama's Grandmother on tape saying he was born in Kenya. He alleges he will be releasing the tape soon. Another rumor floating about is that Obama must produce the original BC by Dec. 1. per SCOTUS... Posted by: defendusa I have heard the tape and it is NOT clear what the grandmother said as she is not speaking in english, but rather what we hear is an interpretor is speaking for her. Also, she has several grandsons named Barack and could have been easily confused so I would not give this much merit. The entire tape is hard to understand and I am not a legal authority, but if I was a juror, I would definately not consider it a viable source evidence against Obama. Now, before you go bashing me, I am NOT an Obama supporter and I have been fighting hard to get our state & US Reps & officials to do their job and prove he is legit. I had an editorial printed in last weeks local newspaper and talked to the editor today and have another coming out this week about the fraudulant SS form. But what I do NOT believe in is Philip Berg. He is more erratic than fire ant. Posted by: Linda Did anyone notice that the year in the post office stamp is off center? Someone else pointed it out to me. I thought I'd pass it along here. Wouldn't it be center as the third line in the center of the circle of the stamp. Shouldn't the "Jul" on the first line and the "29" on the second line and the "80" of the third line in the center circle of the stamper all line up along an invisible center line? Isn't that how these date stamps are made to work and look? Instead, it look to me like the first two digits prefixing the 80 were left blank on purpose due to difficulty making up the stamper to do a back date. Sort of makes me think that the person who made the stamp couldn't find a mechanism with 19 in the prefix and just removed the 20 of a more modern mechanism completely to make this stamper image. That would explain the "80" being off center. Take a look at the postal stamp above and see what you think about this point. Just passing along what someone pointed out to me. Goat Posted by: mtngoat61 I found this history of the Selective Service registration going on in the 1980's (http://www.history.army.mil/books/dahsum/1980/ch05.htm) and thought it was pretty coincidental the dates on Obama's alleged registration lined up with these two lines: "In accordance with a presidential proclamation signed on 2 July 1980, men born in 1960 were required to register during the week of 21 July 1980 and registration of males born in 1961 began on 28 July 1980." "On 4 September 1980, the Director of Selective Service announced that 87 percent of the eligible population had registered on time..." Isn't it strange that the dates of July 29, 1980 and September 4 1980 were also Obama's registration dates? Any third rate hack researcher could've also found this history, and pulled those dates out for convenience sake. Posted by: erkyl One would be amazed by what knowing the 'right people' in Chicago can do. I personally used to be able to get building permits for Cook County in under 30 minutes!!! That's drawn up, approved, and faxed to my office. All I had to do was call my ex-father-in-law, a high ranking Chicago detective, and he would contact the 'right people' and they would jump!!! Posted by: ksp Quote: "I found this history of the Selective Service registration going on in the 1980's (http://www.history.army.mil/books/dahsum/1980/ch05.htm) and thought it was pretty coincidental the dates on Obama's alleged registration lined up with these two lines:" Isn't it just amazing how quickly these links keep getting deleted! Any comment I make on major networks gets deleted within hours. My points are not even mean spirited and they are gone. Freedom of speech is being terminated as we speak. Posted by: jcsjcm Q: Shouldn't the date be centered on the stamp? A: Actually the complete date should be shown and I believe the reason it is off center and missing ink at the top is they used a 2008 stamp upside down. Just my opinion! Posted by: jcsjcm Debbie: Is it possible that when 2000 rolled in all Date Stamps with 19** were archived? Seems likely to me. I like the theory that forgers used Date Stamp 2008, inverted it and blocked out 20 leaving only 80 upside down! Please use your government contacts to comfirn if all Date Stamps with 19** were archived and when. Thank you Posted by: shilor "Isn't it just amazing how quickly these links keep getting deleted! Any comment I make on major networks gets deleted within hours. My points are not even mean spirited and they are gone. Freedom of speech is being terminated as we speak." This is the second time in 24 hours I've heard of a webpage being scrubbed so quickly. Remember to take screenshots or save it to your hard drive! Posted by: 415gam I think the real question here is are the authorities getting involved in this issue? The clock is ticking. If Obama did not register properly and this apparent fraud is real then he is not eligible to be POTUS. We can analyze the docs all we want but what we need is for the authorities to examine the original docs and proceed accordingly. Either declare the registration valid and explain the oddities or confirm the fraud and declare Obama as ineligle to be POTUS. Posted by: MIDDLE CLASS GUY Wow, I can't believe that historical review article was scrubbed. Last night, when I was looking at it for the second time, I knew I should have saved it. Posted by: erkyl Oh, LOL, I do still have it. I guess my cache saved it, and so now I have done a screen-capture of it both as a word doc and as a jpeg. Don't think it's really that big of a deal, but at least I do still have it :-D Posted by: erkyl Okay, so I'll stop after this last comment about the article being scrubbed. Here's what's disturbing about it: #1. The page was from a book and was hosted on an Army Military History website, i.e. our government! So, that's curious. The url includes the name Dashum, so I'm assuming that's who wrote it. But the site must be maintained by government employees, since it's an Army site. #2. All they did by scrubbing the link is make my assertion about the dates appear to be true. I mean, why scrub the article unless that is where they came up with the dates to forge the new registration? You don't have to hide it if it's not true, right? I don't personally think what I asserted was that controversial or earth-shattering. However, if anyone needs to actually see the document in the flesh, I have it. Posted by: erkyl erkyl, All is not lost. I found the cache file on google dated 11/10/2008. I screen captured it and saved it on my hard drive. When I did the search it came up with this address: Hopefully that will let everyone link to it. Posted by: ldtaylor Okay, mystery solved. No conspiracy going on. The article wasn't scrubbed. I will now remove my tin-foil hat. Look at the hyperlink in my original post. The close parenthesis mark was included in the hyperlink, and that was sending to the wrong page. You can still directly link to the page without the parenthesis mark, like this: http://www.history.army.mil/books/dahsum/1980/ch05.htm But, hey, now I know how to find a copy of something that was scrubbed, should I ever need to do so. Posted by: erkyl There have been a couple of comments along the lines of, "Obama has already been elected, so what is the point?" Well, actually, that is false. OBAMA HAS NOT BEEN ELECTED UNTIL THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE MEETS TO CAST THEIR BALLOTS. Alan Keyes has filed a lawsuit in California to prevent the electors in that state from voting until the birth certificate issue is settled. Biden wouldn't automatically take his place because they have not yet been sworn in. I'm not even sure what would happen in the (admittedly unlikely) case of Obama's being found ineligible to hold the office of POTUS before they vote. What a mess! Obama should have straightened all of this out a long time ago if he has nothing to hide. Why start out your term of office with clouds over your head?
Posted by: Snarkymom >>> OBAMA HAS NOT BEEN ELECTED UNTIL THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE MEETS TO CAST THEIR BALLOTS. Technically, he's not even the President-Elect yet! Not until the voting takes place on Dec. 15. And with all of the lawsuits in place, I can honestly see the Electoral Vote being delayed. Posted by: RobertR . I pray that someone with influence in the media or the government reads this and is compelled to bring the facts before the public.
If my Government teacher in 1978 would have told me that in 2008 the President Elect would have 15 lawsuits filed against him in the State Courts and 2 filed in The Supreme Court of the United States filed. If she said that the 17 lawsuits would accuse him of fraud and question his status as a natural born citizen. If she said that his father was a foreign national and that he had held citizenships from other countries. If I was told that the President Elect was not coming forward with documents and records that would put an end to the charges and demanding that his honor be restored. If she said that the major Newspapers and National TV News Networks would not report it. When she said millions and millions of people learned about it on reports from a digital web of world wide computers and were left wondering what does the President Elect have to hide. Was he hiding something that had to wait until after his inauguration to go public? Would it have cost him election? I would have said that that would make for the start of a good novel. But no way could that ever happen. Well here we are. 11-18-08 Tonight FOX News reported in detail on legal cases about the 8 year old Arizona Boy who may have killed his father, a Mom who may have cyber bullied a girl into committing suicide and yes a little more Drew Peterson updates for desert. Not a word on the existence of the 17 lawsuits accusing the next President of the United States to be a fraud. Is this fair and balanced reporting, you decide? Yesterday while reading an online news story a link led me to a report by Debbie
Why are these reports not getting coverage and national attention? Why does Barrack Obama have to be protected from investigation? Is the DNC indirectly using fear of racial violence and riots to obtain and maintain their grasp of executive power? I am a white man and I have a picture of Martin Luther King on my desk. His picture reminds me to judge people “by the content of their character not the color of their skin.” I am a contractor and work with people of all colors every day. I personally employ 2 African Americans and 3 Lost Boys from Sudan. They are good men and deserve the respect they have earned. The current political and racial climate makes me sick. Will fear of riots and violence keep the truth from being told to the people? If we let this happen then it may be the beginning of the end of the America we knew. Think about what could happen in the next 30 years if we do not make a stand now. I was born in 1961 and graduated High School in 1979 same as Barack Obama. My SSS record is genuine. I have been married 24 years, we have 2 children and a small business that my wife and I started 20 years ago that now employs 24 people. I pray to God for knowledge of his will for me.
Posted by: Ken from VA Beach There is only one slight problem here and I am amazed that no one on the board, even the biggest O-bots, has pointed this out. It something that anyone who has worked in or with Federal agencies in the past 30 years, including the retired agent who made the FOIA request, would know: this record cannot be released without the individual�s written permission. The Federal Right to Privacy Act would apply to anyone and everyone whose records are on file with the Federal government. That�s why the IRS agent who looked up the celebrity tax returns got in so much trouble. This is something I dealt with many times a day during the 3 1/2 years I worked in a Congressional office. It�s why we needed the constituent�s written permission to even contact a Federal agency on their behalf. It didn�t matter if it was Social Security, the INS, the VA, any branch of the military, etc. We even needed the constituent�s permission to get them their military medals. Some records are public. Meeting minutes, for instance, don�t contain personal data. This is a personal record and is not public. I�m not saying this wasn�t bent. For instance, the INS would generally give you the status of an application if you had the file number (how else would we know it if we didn�t talk to the applicant or their attorney). The National Personnel Records Center usually took someone�s word for it if they said the veteran whose medals or records they wanted to obtain was deceased. This was especially true for WWII vets and Korean, most of whom have in fact died by now. Also, if you write to a Member of Congress about legislation, your personal information isn�t relevant to their ability to respond, so long as they have your address. My best guess is that both the document and the Selective Service System response is a forgery. If this agent really exists and did work for the INS for so long, he should know that records containing personal info are private. Just for fun, try to get your favorite male relative younger than 45's Selective Service registration. Getting a public figure�s isn�t any different. Try getting your favorite baseball player's, assuming he's a U.S. citizen, of course. Derek Jeter, Grady Sizemore, etc. A free and fair press would be after Obama to release any or all of the following: birth certificate, high school transcript, college transcript, law school transcript, application for student aid, college disciplinary records, employment records, clients represented as an attorney, you name it. They are definitely falling down on the job. That doesn't mean those who are trying to fill the gap aren't trying a little too hard.
Posted by: elmo I am confused. On November 13 this story was broken on this website. It seemed to provide hope for those of us who believe in the rule of law. It seems the numerous cases in the courts regarding Obama�s eligibilty as a natural born citizen are not going to prevail. This revelation of an apparent serous crime by someone, maybe by Obama falsifying a draft registration seemed significant. If true, Obama would not be eligible to be POTUS. Not due to the falsification of the registration but by failing to register he is banned from holding any job in the executive branch of the federal government. Here is my dilemma. Since posting this story it seems that this issue has been put on the back burner and I am beginning to wonder if I am wasting my time coming to this now archived story to see if any action has been taken. This story is off the home page of the site and I get here now by having saved the link. It seems that since posting the story and doing the Breibart interview this story is dead. I hope I am wrong but I do not see any follow ups from Debbie on the site or even responses to questions posed to her. Stephen answered my first e-mail but no answer from Debbie. It seems to me that if this were a real story and I was the one breaking this story and believing in it I would be doing some follow up. That has not happened; at least on the surface. Perhaps Debbie, Stephen, and others are working hard behind the scenes. If this is this case, please let us know somehow that this is a real issue. I would like to know if the authorities are involved or going to be involved. If this is just about looking for an archived story on a blog giving false hope to loyal Americans then I would like to know that. I have no interest in reading about amateur interpretations of the documents that will lead to no where. I am very interested in Stephen�s analysis and whether or not the apparent crime can be confirmed by the authorities. Maybe I am wrong but it seems that a law enforcement forensics team could settle this matter in a day. My question is: is that in the works? Posted by: MIDDLE CLASS GUY I note that the phone number is a 7 digit number (although marked out) - when I lived in Hawaii in the late 60's the phone numbers were only 6 digits. In what year did Hawaii go to the 7 digit number - if after the date of this document, it would prove interesting. Posted by: Karen New to this site. Is it usual that we receive no response to our inquiries? I realize that things must be checked out with several different authorities but will Debbie get back to this site to inform us? Posted by: shilor She responded on the 18th to the post by Ken from VA Beach. Posted by: erkyl Well, indeed, there is a privacy act statement. However, I have called the numbers provided and I have my husband's ss#. If Mr. Coffman had the SS#, then he could certainly have gained access. It took me days to get through by phone. Why is it people keep putting him on the pedestal? Posted by: defendusa
She did not respong to my post. The writer is listed at the bottom of the post, I have made the same mistake. If this was a fake why would she put her name and reputaion in red letters on the documents? Keep on Trucking DS! Posted by: Ken from VA Beach I have provided the registration form, the computer screen printout, the letter from the Selective Service, and the envelope. If anyone thinks I forged or altered the documents, please go to www.sss.gov and click on the FOIA link. And request the documents yourself. The unredacted information (name, DOB, address, Selective Service number etc.) is in the public domain. From my experience as a federal agent, I know there are ways to ask for something that will produce the documents when a normal request does not produce anything. I explained that if the Selective Service did not provide the registration form, then I would request under FOIA all correspondence (including, but not limited to) to and from the agency concerning Senator Obama's Selective Service registration. I also said that if they did supply the registration form, I would not request anything more from them. Carrot and the stick approach. So fell free to send in a FOIA request yourself. All it costs is a postage stamp. I would suggest someone request all the correspondence concerning Senator Obama's registration. I would also suggest that you request a Document Locator Number greater than and less than the one on the form. Don't do the immediate ones before or after the DLN on the registration do a large bracket. Ken from VA beach, why don't you FOIA your form? I hope that helps. Stephen Coffman
Posted by: StephenCoffman Stephen, Debbie: I do not question your veracity, your analysis, or your method of obtaining the documents. My only questions are: �Are the proper authorities getting involved? �If not, how do we get them involved? The clock is ticking. December 15 is coming fast. If your theory is correct then Obama is not eligible to be POTUS or to have any job in the executive branch of the federal government. A forensics team could validate or disprove your conclusions easily. We need the authorities to be involved or all of this chat is meaningless. Thanks, Ken
Posted by: MIDDLE CLASS GUY Mr. Coffman, I enlisted in the USCG in 1979. I registered on April 28, 1982 after I received my honorable discharge from the USCG. I do not think my form and DLN would be of any help. If it can be of help I will request it. Honestly I am afraid to request information for fear of reprisals from Obama supporters that work for the government. I am a small business man and OSHA VA Dept of Taxation or the IRS could make my life a nightmare. I run a legitimate company but these agencies have regulations that no one can follow to the letter. They can make trouble for a business if they want to. Look at what the state of Ohio did to Joe the Plumber. Within 24 hours after he asked Obama a reasonable question they illegally dug up any dirt that could find and ABC,NBC, and CBS al ran it the next day. I hope you understand that people will naturally be skeptical. I guess I have been conditioned to only believe reports in the News Papers or on the Cable and Network News. I am an average guy who is baffled about the lack coverage of the Natural Born Citizen Lawsuits. The lack of coverage seems to be a cover up. This bias and lack of honest coverage of the real Obama has brought me to the internet news and blogs for the first time. Some of the reports and opinions I have seen on the net seem far fetched. So when this news release about Obama’s SSS info came across my screen, I just did not know who to believe. I try not to jump to conclusions and make false accusations.
Posted by: Ken from VA Beach The above comment just proves that the majority of people already feel they have lost something vital and important in this country. The freedom to question our leaders. The freedom of speech.
Posted by: Holly Ken from VA Beach, thank you for your service. I fully understand your concern about being targeted. My wife worries about that every day since I released my name. No one will take the case. The Assistant United States Attorneys (AUSA) are waiting to see if they lose their jobs when Obama becomes president (they are appointed positions). And to take such a case would be a sure political career ending move. As I have said before, I provided this information to Selective Service weeks prior to giving it to Debbie. They are just waiting it out as they know that no one will do anything about it. That is the most serious aspect about this, you have probable cause that a crime has been committed and it is ignored. The Selective Service form may not be that important, but what government document will be forged next? Look at the $2 trillion bailout, but the government will not tell even Congress who is getting this taxpayer money! We are becoming a government that operates on secrets and crimes. Posted by: StephenCoffman I was born March 15, 1961. I checked my Selective Service Verification on the internet Site. It shows the ate of registration as August 22, 1980. I registered in southeast Texas, close to Beaumont, TX
Posted by: BobbyR "While I admit or confess no expertise in DLNs or how they are assigned, I was just looking at the one listed above and find it odd that the DLN just happens to start with the same area code as the phone number in Hawaii. In a way this makes sense if records were going to be tracked based on where the person resided and had a phone, the area code would be a good way to do it. And this in its own way comports with the IRS manual provided, with the first digits being location, just here, its the first three instead of two-which would all that the IRS would need to correlate the number to its filing center, of which there was a limited number."
Posted by: bdybldr bdydldr, how did you get your DLN? Did you FOIA it? The DLN is the way they locate the document on the microfilm. It is put on by the computer before the document is microfilmed. A good example, is to go to the library and ask for the microfilm of your local news paper from 1980. See if the DLN doesn't start with an "80." Remember these documents must be retrievable until the 85th birthday of the registrant. So how many times do you think a person may move between their 18th and 85th birthday? And each time the person moves, they are required to notify the Selective Service (until their 26th birthday). So do you really think the Selective Service retrieves the form and restamps it? Posted by: StephenCoffman Hi Stephen, I have a Selective Service Registration Acknowledgment card that I have carried in my wallet since I got it in 1989. On the front is my Selective Service # (starts with 70; ends with 3). On the back is my name and address (at the time) and above that is my Sel Serv # and another set of numbers (11 digists) which I assume to be my DLN, the first three correspond to the area code in the location where I registered. I wasn't aware that I needed to notify SS when I relocate so I never did that. Posted by: bdybldr bdybldr & Stephen, I am looking at my son's Registration Acknowleegment Card, SSS Form 3A (05-01). He was born in 1983. The front of the card has the SSS emblem with "Registration Acknowledgment Card" (RAC) at the top it then has his Selective Service Number, date of birth, name and address and a space for his signature. On the back it shows the Form number (I stated prior), his Social Security Number, Last Action Date, a statment thanking the registrant for registering and the Director's signature - - No DLN. BUT...his RAC is still attached to the whole entire form (two cards) the top card has two government form numbers 1.) OMB-3240-0003 and 2.) SSS Form 3B (05-01) (FYI: 05 means May, 01 means 2001 - date form was established or changed). Across the top of Form 3B it has his SelSvc#, SocSec#, Sex, Date of Birth and Last Action Date. In the middle of Form 3B it has his Name and Address. Directly above that is his SelSvc#, although it is not identified as such {A normal SelSvc# with birth year at the beginning and a dash 4 at the end (Central U.S.)} After that SelSvc# there is a large space then the number 10, then another large space and then 201##-###### (each # is a number). The Form 3B is a Change of Information Form, therefore the 201##-###### could be a DLN but it is not set up like above's sample. Sorry for the rambling!! Posted by: FedMom *sigh* I havent read this whole page, but am increasingly disturbed thinking about what future my children will have. I cant complain about the newly elected President as I didnt vote. Mind you, I was torn, and couldnt vote. Hence, I opted out. Both sides told me what I wanted to hear, and I didnt want to make an uninformed decision that would affect us as a nation.
Posted by: shadowlogic Selective Service registration was mandatory for all young men 18 and over, in 1980. I came to this country in 1979 as a refugee, and became a U.S. citizen in 1985. I clearly remember how my brother and myself had our doubts re Selective Service registration, but still went and registered in 1980. I was not a citizen of this country at the time, and citizenship was not a prerequisite for registration. Our registrations were accepted and we both received letters from Selected Service attesting to the fact that we registered. Furthermore, I'd like to dispel any doubts re the last digit of the registration number. In the mainframe world (and IT world, for that matter), it is common practice to utilize what is known as a 'check digit'. This is also known as 'data integrity'. Check Digit serves as verification that no figures were transposed or missed in the original number. It is derived from doing some mathematics on the original number - in this case - assigned Selective Service Registration number. For example, multiply it by 3 and divide by 7 - every data processing shop has its own formula. The last digit of the result would be added to the main number as a check digit. This is how the system knows if your number is wrong and would not provide you with someone else's information. Here's an example: Your original number is 1212. Multiply by 3, divide by 7, result is 519, check digit is 9, becomes 1212-9 You transposed numbers, it is now 1221. Multiply by 3, divide by 7, result is 523, check digit is 3. Becomes 1221-3 This is how you check for integrity. Selective Service computers have this algorithm in them to catch errors. I sincerely doubt that the last digit has anything to do with the Selective Service registration center location. So don't waste your time on this, other facts are much more significant in my view.
Posted by: EK FedMom, My card is exactly as you describe above: Sel Serv # 10 DLN# (I assume anyway--not indicated as such) Is the area code where your son registered "201"? Posted by: bdybldr NO, bdybldr, that was not his area code. 201 is a New Jersey area code and his was in the mid-west. I also tried to use the first five digits as a zip code since it was just above his name and address and just below the postal scanning line. I didn't think it was but I had to try and those five digits did not come up as a zip code. Grasping at straws!! Posted by: FedMom Must be coincidence then. Maybe the formats are different for each state (just a guess) but I didn't register in 90 which is the first 2 digits of my DLN(?). I actually registered in 89. Posted by: bdybldr This is an amazing find and another mystery around BO. Everyone assumes that Obama got his financial aid from the US, but there is a suggestion that his actual aid came from overseas arranged by one of his backers. If this is the case he would not have had to get a loan from the government and would not have needed to show a draft card. This can also explain why no records from his schools can be located as they too may indicate his status and his overseas connections. I find it extremely hard to believe that a guy who flunked out of college on his first try would then be eligible for a loan or scholarship at a major university and how did he get in there with his grades? If it were you or me we would have been rejected or at the least have to prove we were academically eligible through completion of summer school or an extended learning semester before acceptance. Personally, I believe Obama is not what people believe he is. There are far too many unanswered questions about his past life as a child and young man. There are also a lot of questions surrounding his religion, his associations, his mentors, and his rise to power because this is what it's about "power". His selection of a VP who also by the way never revealed his medical records and he has had two brain aneurysms. He also exhibits classic signs of damage by his responses to questions like his interview with Katie Couric on the depression when he indicated the president came on TV to talk to the nation. Biden also had to get out of the last presidential race because he was found to have plagiarized a speech. This is really sad people. We have a President we can't trust and a vice-president who’s impaired and if anything happens to them Pelosi will be President. I cannot imagine why anyone would have voted for this pair without looking into their pasts and questioning what "change" really meant. Posted by: LACE There is an interesting story with an audio link on The Right Side Of Life website. Some radio show called to the Kenyan embassy and talked the ambassador and in the midst of the conversation the ambassador started talking about the monument that is in the works at the site of Obama's birthplace in Kenya which he says is already a tourist attraction. Posted by: MIDDLE CLASS GUY Thank you Debbie for all your hard work! I have been researching Obama's lack of information and documentation for months. Below are some great sites. For those who can't swallow the Obamaid and and want to do something this crisis here you go: http://www.peoplespassions.org/
http://www.democratic-disaster.com/index.php http://www.drudgereport.com/
http://www.grassfire.org/111/petition.asp?PID=18842186&NID=1
Posted by: VoiceOReason I'm wondering if there is some confusion about the DLN# versus the SSS#. The SSS# does start with the birth year. The DLN# seems to be linked to the registration year. Also, the form above is a Registration Form, not a Registration Acknowledgement or Draft Card. This might help clear up what appears to be contradictory information. Just a thought. Posted by: Linda Just wondering if there are any posters here who registered around the same time as BHO and can get their copy for comparison. It would be even better if you were able to get someone who registered in Hawaii at during the same time. It seems to me that somehow someone should be able to obtain a registration within a few days of BHO from HI to for comparison Posted by: gonavy_40 Here is the link to the radio station that has the audio referred to by LACE above. Slide the audio button to the time 12:15 to listen to a Kenyan Ambassador admit that Obama was born in Kenya: http://my.wrif.com/mim/?p=916#comment-2129 I have shared this with Phil Berg, as well. Posted by: YMR in MS. Great work, Debbie. I doubt that NObama created the fake document or signed it. He has his ACORN thugs handling his illegal activity. What will it do to our military if the commander in chief failed to register for the draft and then created a fake document to cover it up? Posted by: dougfromupland Why wouldn't Obama had to register for Selective Service in 1980? From the FACTCHECK.org website: “When Barack Obama Jr. was born on Aug. 4,1961, in Honolulu, Kenya was a British colony, still part of the United Kingdom’s dwindling empire. As a Kenyan native, Barack Obama Sr. was a British subject whose citizenship status was governed by The British Nationality Act of 1948. That same act governed the status of Obama Sr.‘s children. Since Sen. Obama has neither renounced his U.S. citizenship nor sworn an oath of allegiance to Kenya, his Kenyan citizenship automatically expired on Aug. 4,1982.” From the SSS.gov website: http://www.sss.gov/FSaliens.htm "U.S. non-citizens and dual nationals are required by law to register with the Selective Service System.* Most are also liable for induction into the U.S. Armed Forces if there is a draft. They would also be eligible for any deferments, postponements, and exemptions available to all other registrants. However, some aliens and dual nationals would be exempt from induction into the military if there is a draft, depending on their country of origin and other factors. Some of these exemptions are shown below: * An alien who has lived in the U.S. for less than one year is exempt from induction.
Did the Bancroft Treaty between the USA and the UK exempt Obama from registering for the Selective Service? Posted by: StephenCoffman Let's say it's absolutely proven Obama never registered for Selective Service. PLEASE, I need to know what laws will make him ineligible for service in the Executive Branch? Which laws will make it illegal for him to be president if he never registered for Selective Service? Posted by: Carmen Carmen, the US Constitution says at Art. I Sec. 4: "The President, Vice President and all civil officers of the United States, shall be removed from office on impeachment for, and conviction of, treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors." Now the question would be if "it's absolutely proven Obama never registered for Selective Service" what would be the crime? Please look at 50 U.S.C. App. 451 et seq. http://www.sss.gov/PDFs/MSSA-2003.pdf It provides that anyone required to register, but does not is subject to a fine of $10,000.00 (now $250,000.00) and up to 5 years in prison or both. However, the statute of limitations for failure to register expired on the person who refused to registers 31st birthday. However, a new crime is committed if a false or altered registration certificate is made or possessed. This new crime has a new statute of limitation beginning on the last date a person made or possessed a false or altered registration certificate. “(b) [Registration Certificate, Alterations, False Identification] Any person (1) who
If the Selective Service registration provided to me by the Selective Service under a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request is determined beyond a reasonable doubt to be false, forged, or altered, then those who did the act or those who furthered the act are equally guilty. 18 USC 371. Conspiracy to commit offense or to defraud United States
Now there is a lot of derogatory statements made about conspiracy theories as if a conspiracy is something unlikely to occur and is ridiculed. But in all actuality, a conspiracy is where two or more people commit or contribute to the committing of a crime. And the crime does not need to be committed. For example, you have three guys sitting around drinking beer. One of them suggests that they rob the beer joint across the state line tomorrow. They all voice that it sounds like a good idea. They continue to drink their beer, but one of the three goes and legally rents a “get away car.” The robbery of the beer joint never occurs because the wife of one reports the conversation to the police. So is there a crime? Yes, the crime of conspiracy has been committed because they agreed to do the crime and one of them did something to further the crime. Now in the instance situation, even if Senator Obama did not fill out the form, but merely provided any of the information that was put on the form (i.e. the telephone number) knowing that a false, forged, or altered registration form was going to be made, then he would be equally as guilty as the forger. Now would the crime of conspiracy to defraud the United States (or one of its agencies) rise to the level of “bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors." Well, if the false, forged, or altered registration was done in agreement that one or more Selective Service officials would remain in office after Senator Obama became President, then it would clearly be bribery. Absent the bribery aspect is the falsification, forgery, or alteration of the registration sufficient to qualify for “high crimes and misdemeanors?” Well, it would be a felony (as a rule of thumb, any offense that carries a punishment greater than one year is a felony. A misdemeanor is an offense with a punishment of less than one year.). Are all felonies “high crimes”? Good question, but as usual a lot of good questions have not been answered by the courts. However, impeachment proceedings were instituted against President Nixon on the ALLEGATION (no conviction) of “Obstruction of Justice.”
Besides the allegations of falsification, forgery, and/or alteration of the Selective Service form, there would also be the allegation as to why Obama did not register in 1980 as required. If Obama was claiming Kenyan or other foreign citizenry as an exemption (no formal action required, just not register) then that would be a disavowing of any US Citizenry. This ties the Selective Service registration issue in with the college transcripts issue and the birth certificate issue. If the birth certificate shows foreign birth, he may not be eligible to hold the office of Presidency. If he claimed foreign citizenry on his college transcripts, that would be a very good reason for him to not release the transcripts. In August 2008, the Obama/Biden released Biden’s Selective Service file which showed that Biden received the same number of deferments as VP Chaney. http://www.prolifeblogs.com/articles/aggregator.php?entry=577417 But not one word on Senator Obama’s registration even though there were questions posted on his own website by me: http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/stephencoffman/gGxskJ Who knows what will happen?
Posted by: StephenCoffman Stephen, Is it not also put of the penalty that if you fail to register that you can never hold a job in the Executive branch of the federal Government? Isn't the presidency a job in the federal Government even though it is an elected position? Ken Posted by: MIDDLE CLASS GUY BHO's left-handed autographs in the photo (http://tinyurl.com/5nvnyk) resemble his 02/12/07 stmt. of candidacy signature (http://tinyurl.com/6l5jqq) but are dissimilar to his SS registration signature (http://tinyurl.com/5t2gf4). Besides all the questions Debbie legitimately raises, there are two other facts about BHO's life around the time of the supposed registration which both answers some of the questions, and raises others. The following comments are from this webpage: http://tinyurl.com/6agk4f "LOS ANGELES - Barack Obama's interest in political activism took root at Occidental College, a small liberal arts institution in this city's hilly Eagle Rock section. "He was barely 18 when he arrived in 1979, a kid from Hawaii who still called himself Barry."
From the above information, BHO went by the name Barry during his 1979 to 1981 sojourn in the Los Angeles area. But his SSS card is signed Barack H. Obama in July, 1980 !!! Unless he flew back to Hawaii for the summer, he couldn't have mailed this registration from Honolulu. BHO has never spoken of one or more trips back to Hawaii for time with his mother's family so that possibility seems pretty implausible.
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Friday, December 5, 2008
DebbieSchlussel.com_Obama's Selective Serivce
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